ls6pilot Posted July 29, 2019 Report Share Posted July 29, 2019 I know. There is an loa for flying with main wheel pants removed. Can one fly with front wheel pant removed? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben2k9 Posted July 29, 2019 Report Share Posted July 29, 2019 Never heard of needing an LOA to remove wheel pants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okent Posted July 29, 2019 Report Share Posted July 29, 2019 Would this be for flying into grass strips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted July 29, 2019 Report Share Posted July 29, 2019 I know on at least some models the nose wheel pant is required for the rudder to center properly IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted July 29, 2019 Report Share Posted July 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Ben2k9 said: Never heard of needing an LOA to remove wheel pants. Any change from how the airplane left the factory is supposed to require documentation from the manufacture. The common method is in the form of a MRA/LOA ect.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted July 29, 2019 Report Share Posted July 29, 2019 4 hours ago, ls6pilot said: I know. There is an loa for flying with main wheel pants removed. Can one fly with front wheel pant removed? For S-LSA - No. There is not an LOA for removing the front wheel pant. Mains wheels - yes . . . Front Wheel - no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdarza Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 Meaning cant fly legally without the front wheel pant ? - Am just curious why this would be. It flies just the same without so what are they cautious about to not have a LOA for the front wheel ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, cdarza said: . . . . just curious why this would be. It flies just the same without so what are they cautious about to not have a LOA for the front wheel ? You will have to take that up with Flight Design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 Just as a point of information, the SLSA CTSW I trained in had the pants removed on all wheels, to make for easier and more thorough pre-flight inspections. It flew just fine in that configuration, even if it was not 100% legal. I can't speak to the CTLS or other models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 15 hours ago, okent said: Would this be for flying into grass strips? You don't need to remove the pants for grass. I do it all the time, even in pretty high grass with non-tundra wheels the pants are fine. They will need cleaning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okent Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 Thanks Andy. Oshkosh was the first time to get on grass and this was just for taxi. The pants were a little green and so were the prop tips but nothing I'd call extreme. I plan to fly into some local grass strips this year so I'm interested if there is any benefit in removing them. The strips are very well maintained so I'm not worried about tall grass. I just want to make sure #1- I'm legal, #2- there is some kind of benefit. I've got a 2008 CTLS. It has the centering springs on the rudder so the pants aren't required to keep the wheel centered during flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 3 hours ago, okent said: I've got a 2008 CTLS. It has the centering springs on the rudder so the pants aren't required to keep the wheel centered during flight. I don't remember the details, but there was some control issue with the first CTLS's related to the nose wheel pant. I would ask the Gutmann's, Tom Peghiny, or maybe John Hurst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okent Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 Will do Tom. I know the centering springs were added to take care of a corked nose wheel problem. Mine has those so I'll bet I'm good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 IIRC, I think the wheelpant problem was to fix an issue with the nosewheel/pant inducing drag that would cause a yaw moment. I know Bill Ince had a yaw problem that he could not trim out until he got the latest redesigned wheelpant from FD. After that the problem vanished This was with tundra gear, and I don't think he ever ran it with no pant -- so I don't know if the problem was entirely the pant shape, or partially the nose gear itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, okent said: Will do Tom. I know the centering springs were added to take care of a corked nose wheel problem. Mine has those so I'll bet I'm good to go. The centering springs on the rudder have been there on all the models I have seen. There is a light and heavy spring for the CTSW. The CTLS has always had the heavy spring. There was a SB on the rudder stops in the centering mechanism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, FlyingMonkey said: IIRC, I think the wheelpant problem was to fix an issue with the nosewheel/pant inducing drag that would cause a yaw moment. I know Bill Ince had a yaw problem that he could not trim out until he got the latest redesigned wheelpant from FD. After that the problem vanished This was with tundra gear, and I don't think he ever ran it with no pant -- so I don't know if the problem was entirely the pant shape, or partially the nose gear itself. I never did operate the airplane without the nose gear wheel fairing installed. Redesigned wheel fairing solved yaw issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 Bill - what problem were you having? Did FD charge you for the redesigned pant? Mine won't hold a heading no matter how I trim. Requires almost as much attention as a helicopter! Maybe it's me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdarza Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 For years i always had a slight left yaw issue. I would have the rudder trim full and it would help just a bit. I just got used to pressing on the right pedal and mastered a way of wedging my foot just a bit to help not tire from the continuous pressure. Never enjoyed this but its just one of those things that i let be for waaaaaaay too long. Then the thought of the nose fairing being the issue was a lightbulb moment but again i let this be just a thought for more years... Finally, just this year i removed the wheel fairing and went for a flight.. Hallelujah !! Tracked straight !!! I was so used to pressing slight right rudder i was actually inducing a right yaw lol So now it was confirmed its the nose fairing - how was i to fix that (no idea up to this day) However, installed the fairing back on, and i dunno what the heck happened but the aircraft still tracks straight - well, most of the time. Its one of those quirky aircraft things that if i have slight left yaw, i nudge the rudder just a bit off to the right and then let it settle. Sometimes it has slight right yaw and i nudge the rudder to the left, and let it settle in the middle - I am just concluding the fairing is catching the airstream in either a left or right yaw and i have to force it into that sweet spot. Weird !! but works thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 The early SW's have a light centering spring, and if there is any drag in the system the rudder doesn't center well. You can change to the heavy spring without much trouble. Also I have seen a case where the rudder cable had jumped off the pulley for the trim system, and you couldn't trim the airplane in yaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted August 3, 2019 Report Share Posted August 3, 2019 Don't seem to have yaw trim issues on my 2006 CTSW with Tundra but I do have a "over center" response sometimes when using the rudder to coordinate with ailerons when turning. Press the rudder and I don't get the needed response. Press a little more and then too much. I've always thought that the front pant is being "pushed" by the airflow which results in too much rudder response. It appears that this is happening based on comments here. I automatically account for this and no big deal but I don't have the "yaw wandering" issue during straight ahead flight. Was not aware that FD offers a new front wheel pant and/or stiff spring for those owners bothered by problem trimming for yaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 I think I solved my wandering heading problem very simply. Set my rudder and aileron trims back to zero then went flying. Now it tracks straight with ball centered in cruise. Now, if I could only solve the pitch problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 2 hours ago, sandpiper said: I think I solved my wandering heading problem very simply. Set my rudder and aileron trims back to zero then went flying. Now it tracks straight with ball centered in cruise. Now, if I could only solve the pitch problem. I think that's usually what Roger recommends...center all trim wheels, go fly, and then adjust aileron trim to neutralize any roll bias and then the rudder to counter any left over yaw. Glad you got it sorted out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Yeo Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 Greetings, new to the group, just purchased at 2007 CTSW with tundra tires. In high speed cruise flight the airplane would start to yaw to the left and continue yawing until right rudder was applied. If I over apply right rudder and it would yaw to the right and continue. With the help of this forum I removed the front Wheel pant and it flies straight as an arrow. Completely different airplane. Went from completely unstable airplane to a pretty stable airplane. In talking with FD USA and the good folks at Airtime Aviation, apparently there were a bad batch of front wheel pants. This pant I believe is still in circulation. There is too much mass in front of the pivot point of the front wheel, which causes wind the catch it inputting ghost rudder pressure. FD USA have the new CTLS pants that can be purchased for $600 but will need some modifications. One of the FD dealers suggested I go to a glass shop and have the front of the wheel pant cut down and re fiber glassed. Hope this helps someone out there. Dennis Yeo - Commercial, ASEL, AMEL, LSRM Roseburg, OR Wildland Fire Pilot 2007 CTSW N208CT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 Dennis, thanks for this info. There are posts on the forum discussing front wheel pants causing unwanted yaw input. Instead of the "mass" I'm pretty sure you mean the surface of the pant which is ahead of the center line of the wheel causing unwanted yaw input? If there might be a CTSW owner near you who doesn't seem to have this problem, perhaps you can take some good measurements of his "good" pant and compare to yours to identify those areas where there are major differences in contour. Modify your pant to agree with the "good" one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Yeo Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 I have been saying mass. But I like surface better! The old one is getting reglassed as we speak. Appreciate all the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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