Jump to content
Skunkworks85

CTSSi At LSA Expo

Recommended Posts

I got to see the new CTSSi at the Midwest LSA expo today, I was most interested to see this, just to campare to my SW.

This is the only registered CTSS in the USA at the moment. 

Some thoughts.

1. The wings are the same wing at the CTLS, yet they retain the old CTSW fuel caps. not vent in the tip. This was also explained as a cost savings, less intricate tubes and fuel line routing . Additionally, they only use one pitot tube, presumably because only one Dynon in the cockpit.

2. They ditch the rudder and aileron trim, and have the CTLS electric pitch trim. Cost saving measure.

3. This particular plane has no landing light. but has the switch installed, Tom jr said this will be getting one soon.

4. Im not that familiar with the CTLS but there are fuel lines that run inside the cockpit next to the mushroom, AN fittings, I thought that was strange, but maybe common due to the 912is. (High pressure lines)

5. Not the same landing gear as the CTLS, It is thinner bonded fiberglass.

6. Has the Marc brakes

7. Just now looking at the pictures, there is no intercom. (only one headset can be plugged in)IMG_20190907_090540734.thumb.jpg.4be786829b638f4bb92036511a8f4c5d.jpg

IMG_20190907_090904481_HDR.thumb.jpg.061a828a131aff7d18d18e847c801c23.jpgIMG_20190907_090826845.thumb.jpg.1c1fc24c6ed2c13ce89a81a5b35a7bdc.jpgIMG_20190907_090810156.thumb.jpg.918f8ead080b66a0c20d0187040aa798.jpgIMG_20190907_090451971_HDR.thumb.jpg.89453f7b6fafd977bf2d81c4eb8c8411.jpg

IMG_20190907_090330491.thumb.jpg.4ab93fb1fbf8bf34f97a7629f56b6e91.jpg

 

IMG_20190907_090357312_HDR.thumb.jpg.0c3315758d3275576bc0418d8ea9e1bf.jpg

IMG_20190907_090502931_HDR.thumb.jpg.9e21a680b795890a839397a34f571c1d.jpg

 

IMG_20190907_090351178_HDR.thumb.jpg.d95cf9783b2951a62552d584d5eeb41d.jpg

 

 

Tom did say that Dan Johnson did a full ride report, so stay tuned to see that video!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My gut is that they will drop the CTLS from the line.  Replaced by the F2.  Then followed on by the F4.

this model has its place for the ages.  Perfect cheaper trainer for flight schools and an economical choice for owners.  I would love to have 100 extra pounds available for trips etc.  and isn’t the price point about $140k? The plane loses some sizzle regarding the extra flight displays, hat rack (which is nice to have) and longer wheel base (also nice to have) but the cost savings are significant.

I saw this plane up close recently, I like it.  Thank you for the report.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also lacks a Cockpit Light Switch.

I thought the F2 was listed at $185?

Assuming this panel is the sole option, then it makes what was once a likely upgrade now unacceptable. 😥

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Uh definitely a step back to the SW era. I'm not getting the flight school idea with only 1 headphones plug in. And every plane has a built in MRA for a change from Marc brakes to Matco. Naturally the increased useful load is desirable and I personally like the electric trim (which should include ailerons), since my CTLS manual trims suck (except for pitch).  With the potentially increased MTOW coming from the FAA, it seems a better idea to take the F4 and yank out the back seats for a heavier and more capacious 'light' sport  🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see that it has the intercom switch. I suspect that there are headset pugs behind the seat in the center just like a SW. There was a later ASTM requirement to have an emergency set of pugs wired directly bypassing the intercom, I would guess the plugs in the center panel meet this requirement. 

I didn't go over the airplane in detail when I was there. If I was guessing I would suspect that this airplane is not using a header tank like the CTLSi, and that that is a supply line from that wing and a return line from the engine.

Tom jr said it is more sporty than the CTLS, and I would believe that to be true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the airplane I have said for a long time that FD should be building.  Lightweight, and an update of the CTSW rather than the heavier CTLS.  Basically it has all the aspects of the CTLS/CTLSi that are improvements, plus the light weight of the CTSW.  What's not to like?  As long as the LSA weight stays at 1320lb, this should sell like hotcakes.

I do wish it had the larger mushroom and panel like the later CTSW and CTLS has, but given the compactness of modern avionics it's not really a necessity.  If I was shopping for a new LSA, this would be tops on my list right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said:

This is the airplane I have said for a long time that FD should be building.  Lightweight, and an update of the CTSW rather than the heavier CTLS.  Basically it has all the aspects of the CTLS/CTLSi that are improvements, plus the light weight of the CTSW.  What's not to like?  As long as the LSA weight stays at 1320lb, this should sell like hotcakes.

I do wish it had the larger mushroom and panel like the later CTSW and CTLS has, but given the compactness of modern avionics it's not really a necessity.  If I was shopping for a new LSA, this would be tops on my list right now.

I agree, If i were in the market for a new LSA, this would be a top contender, Tom Jr, and Senor were getting fuel as I was talking to them, the CTLS took 4 more gallons that the CTSS, they said they topped them off right before the flight from Tulsa, Sr. said he had to throttle up to keep up with the CTSS.

 

Additionally, Jr. said that the CTSS was just certified last Tuesday as a LSA, so i would not take this particular plane as what you will get as a standard, He said all with come with the landing light/ night flight stuff, I did not realize until after I looked at the pictures about the intercom, But I'm sure they will all come with an intercom.

 

Edit: I would actually take the Tecnam p2008, but I cant afford it. It has the 914 in it. and if they rules change for and in flight adjustable prop, that plane can easily cruise at 135-140 knots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Skunkworks85 said:

 

Edit: I would actually take the Tecnam p2008, but I cant afford it. It has the 914 in it. and if they rules change for and in flight adjustable prop, that plane can easily cruise at 135-140 knots.

CTs in Europe with adjustable props fly at 135kt.  You don't need a 914 to get that performance (at least from a CT)...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said:

CTs in Europe with adjustable props fly at 135kt.  You don't need a 914 to get that performance (at least from a CT)...

They do with the 912? I know you can get the CT in Europe with the 914. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah , my impression about 914 was ( after talking to both Sling and Sting dealers) that it doesn’t really do much for cruise , just for climb rate - a constant speed prop and retractable gear help a lot more as far as cruising speeds.

On the other hand , one particular Tecnam dealer keeps talking up 914 as helping both in climb and in cruise - not sure who is right 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I reviewed the Tecnam p2008 b4 I purchased the CTLSi.  It is a great  looking/performing  plane but had the LSA weight limitation virus big time.  And it was priced 15% more.  Effectively a single place plane with the 914.  Further, at the time (year ago) the Dealer network reach for the inevitable squawk or two was limited.  

I think this new CTSW variant is a great plane as long as the price point stays low. The CTLSi is a great two place plane for 300 mile trips, and the best plane in its class for 800 mile trips by oneself.  

The new F model killed the CTLS model  because of a new production technique.  Less material, bigger cabin, similar price point.  Which is what a good, forward thinking aircraft company should do.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 914 will help in cruise when you get to altitude. You will have a higher true airspeed plus the ability to have sea level power, that will definitely lead to a higher cruise speed.

This is the same reason the 135-140 HP 915iS is going to shine over a 150 HP Lycoming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Skunkworks85 said:

I agree, If i were in the market for a new LSA, this would be a top contender, Tom Jr, and Senor were getting fuel as I was talking to them, the CTLS took 4 more gallons that the CTSS, they said they topped them off right before the flight from Tulsa, Sr. said he had to throttle up to keep up with the CTSS.

When I was on my way to MVN on Thursday afternoon Tom Jr was taking off in the SS for a flight. I know they did a photo mission earlier in the day. He also put some fuel in while I was there. I wouldn't put to much stock in the fuel burn based on them fueling the airplane while you were there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

When I was on my way to MVN on Thursday afternoon Tom Jr was taking off in the SS for a flight. I know they did a photo mission earlier in the day. He also put some fuel in while I was there. I wouldn't put to much stock in the fuel burn based on them fueling the airplane while you were there.

Ohh yeah, he did say that He went up with Dan Johnson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tom Baker said:

This is the same reason the 135-140 HP 915iS is going to shine over a 150 HP Lycoming.

Sure, but you can get a new in crate 180HP Lycoming for $9k less than a 915iS...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said:

Sure, but you can get a new in crate 180HP Lycoming for $9k less than a 915iS...

Were can you get this brand new (i assume IO-360) for $29k?

 

image.thumb.png.0a06665d6bf8081b3bef244949265d1c.png

 

I dont know a lot about lycomings, or which specific model you're talking about but a quick search shows :

 

image.png.1f93f3e4d581664c30b8cabd82060b96.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said:

Sure, but you can get a new in crate 180HP Lycoming for $9k less than a 915iS...

I'm not so sure about that. I recently priced a o-360 for a Maule. Overhauled not new price was $28,000, and you have to have a core. No core add $10,000 plus. New list price outright is $75,000. I haven't looked into prices for an experimental Lycoming clone.

Even if it is $9,000 more you will make up the difference in fuel saving in under 1,000 hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know the new Titan 180hp start at around 30k but that’s not certified so yeah , you can have this class of engine for much less than the new Rotax.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Warmi said:

I know the new Titan 180hp start at around 30k but that’s not certified so yeah , you can have this class of engine for much less than the new Rotax.

Sure but at that price you don't get carburetor, mags, alternator, exhaust. All of which come with the 915.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Warmi said:

I know the new Titan 180hp start at around 30k but that’s not certified so yeah , you can have this class of engine for much less than the new Rotax.

That's the one I'm talking about.  It was $26k complete with exhaust.  It might have been on special, but that's what he paid for an engine ready to install from the factory.

I don't think anybody can argue that the 915iS is "bargain priced".  At best it's an expensive alternative to similar engines.  It might do better at high altitude than a 180hp engine due to the turbo, but that comes at a premium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Warmi said:

I know the new Titan 180hp start at around 30k but that’s not certified so yeah , you can have this class of engine for much less than the new Rotax.

Is the 915iS certified?  I didn't think so...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said:

Is the 915iS certified?  I didn't think so...

It is in Europe ( EASA ) but I am not sure how this certification translates to the US market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Warmi said:

It is in Europe ( EASA ) but I am not sure how this certification translates to the US market.

I meant part 23.  I don't think it's certified here. 

Nobody cares about Europe, nobody can afford recreational flying there anyway.  :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...