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Post your CT Weight and Balance Full Fuel


Skunkworks85

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I have a nice Excel W&B sheet I stole for a member on this form, I adopted it to my aircraft, mostly to play with the numbers. One thing I noticed when i bought the plane that pilot with full fuel is outside the envelope. 

Is my plane the exception? What are you CG's arms?

 

I currently need to have 28lbs of ballast is the baggage to be in the envelope.

 

image.png.183f85c50435abfa088b71fc5e7d1453.png

 

With 28 lbs as ballast

 

image.png.5d35810c6e66b97be16b6c2c0562f3f1.png

 

915CT weight and Balance.xlsx

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That seems unusual, but I don't fly the CTSW.  My CTLS is virtually impossible to exceed the balance if you don't exceed the prescribed weight limits (250 lbs each seat I believe, and 55 lbs per side in the rear baggage area).  With that being said, there is no way to get 2 250 pound people and put fuel on, but it is still within balance.

I attached a ForeFlight weight and balance profile I created loaded down to the max weight in baggage, max fuel, and a 170 lbs pilot.

LoadingSummary.pdf

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My CTSW is 744.4lb empty weight, and with me in the pilot seat (I weight 185lb in my skivvies so use 195lb as my weight), I have not been able to find a config where I respect the individual weight limits of all stations (passenger seat, foot lockers, baggage, fuel), stay under 1320lb, *and* get the airplane out of CG.

In other words, as long as I don't overload anything or fly over gross, I can fill whatever I need and not worry about CG.  My normal configurations are:

1) Me and 16-24 gallons fuel, 5lb in each foot locker, 15lb in starboard baggage (cover, tie downs, Decalin, etc) (1108.4lb total)

2) The above plus a passenger up to 200lb or so (1308.4lb total).

3)  Long cross country config: me, 32 gallons fuel, 5lb in each foot locker, 15lb in starboard baggage (cover, tie downs, Decalin, etc), up to 50lb in port baggage (1206.4lb).

 

The CTSW really only becomes challenging when I have a full-sized passenger and want to go a long distance.  It's still not really a problem if you are willing to fly shorter legs of 2 hours or so and fill up ~20 gallons at a time.

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1 minute ago, FlyingMonkey said:

My CTSW is 744.4lb empty weight, and with me in the pilot seat (I weight 185lb in my skivvies so use 195lb as my weight), I have not been able to find a config where I respect the individual weight limits of all stations (passenger seat, foot lockers, baggage, fuel), stay under 1320lb, *and* get the airplane out of CG.

In other words, as long as I don't overload anything or fly over gross, I can fill whatever I need and not worry about CG.  My normal configurations are:

1) Me and 16-24 gallons fuel, 5lb in each foot locker, 15lb in starboard baggage (cover, tie downs, Decalin, etc) (1108.4lb total)

2) The above plus a passenger up to 200lb or so (1308.4lb total).

3)  Long cross country config: me, 32 gallons fuel, 5lb in each foot locker, 15lb in starboard baggage (cover, tie downs, Decalin, etc), up to 50lb in port baggage (1206.4lb).

 

The CTSW really only becomes challenging when I have a full-sized passenger and want to go a long distance.  It's still not really a problem if you are willing to fly shorter legs of 2 hours or so and fill up ~20 gallons at a time.

Do you know what your empty CG arm is?

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FWIW, my 2006 CTSW weighs 738 empty.  With no fuel and no other loading, my arm is 12.75"  If loaded with a pilot @ 190 lb. only, the arm goes to 14.34".  If a 190 lb. pilot flies with 24 gal. of fuel (assuming 6 lb. per gallon) total weight is 1072 lb. and C.G. is 14".  The published referenced "loaded" CG range for my 2006 CTSW is 13.28" to 18.70".  Running thru different loaded scenarios, I agree with Andy's comments about being able to always stay within the allowable C.G. range, no matter how much fuel or how one may load the CTSW, providing loaded amounts are kept within recommended limits at all stations.  It must be noted that the baggage area can cause a failed C.G.  if one places a load up to the max allowed of 55 lbs. per side rearward from the curtain.  Caution: Insure that loads placed in the baggage area are SECURED and not allowed to shift!!)

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30 minutes ago, Runtoeat said:

FWIW, my 2006 CTSW weighs 738 empty.  With no fuel and no other loading, my arm is 12.75"  If loaded with a pilot @ 190 lb. only, the arm goes to 14.34".  If a 190 lb. pilot flies with 24 gal. of fuel (assuming 6 lb. per gallon) total weight is 1072 lb. and C.G. is 14".  The published referenced "loaded" CG range for my 2006 CTSW is 13.28" to 18.70".  Running thru different loaded scenarios, I agree with Andy's comments about being able to always stay within the allowable C.G. range, no matter how much fuel or how one may load the CTSW, providing loaded amounts are kept within recommended limits at all stations.  It must be noted that the baggage area can cause a failed C.G.  if one places a load up to the max allowed of 55 lbs. per side rearward from the curtain.  Caution: Insure that loads placed in the baggage area are SECURED and not allowed to shift!!)

But when I plug your information in the W&B with full fuel your plane is outside the envelope. 

image.png.8cdf8451a17a81ef6ff331be8515f6d3.png

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Skunkworks, I see the same issue you do.  Full fuel, myself and a passenger and I need to add about 35 to 40 pounds to the baggage area to get within CG range based on weight.  What I think the issue is here points to the forward CG changing at different weights.  My AOI calls out 3 different forward CG limits at 3 weights.   

13.6 in @ 805

13.3 in @ 995

15.1 in @ 1320

That said, are many of you calculating the forward CG at the max, in my case 13.3? Or are you plugging in the various CGs based on weight?

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15 hours ago, johnnyjr said:

Skunkworks, I see the same issue you do.  Full fuel, myself and a passenger and I need to add about 35 to 40 pounds to the baggage area to get within CG range based on weight.  What I think the issue is here points to the forward CG changing at different weights.  My AOI calls out 3 different forward CG limits at 3 weights.   

13.6 in @ 805

13.3 in @ 995

15.1 in @ 1320

That said, are many of you calculating the forward CG at the max, in my case 13.3? Or are you plugging in the various CGs based on weight?

That is interesting, I have not seen anything in my AOI about the the 3 different CG's, where is this at in your AOI?

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25 minutes ago, Skunkworks85 said:

That is interesting, I have not seen anything in my AOI about the the 3 different CG's, where is this at in your AOI?

I'll have to circle back, I spent a bunch of time figuring out how to load W&B when I got the CT earlier this year.  The more I think about it I believe these numbers came from a discussion I had on my field with a CTLS owner who extrapolated them from the W&B chart.  If you look at the W&B chart in the AOI or the one posted above you will see the correlation between my numbers and the chart.  I have notes on how I came to this conclusion and will pull them and share the info once I locate them.

 

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50 minutes ago, johnnyjr said:

I'll have to circle back, I spent a bunch of time figuring out how to load W&B when I got the CT earlier this year.  The more I think about it I believe these numbers came from a discussion I had on my field with a CTLS owner who extrapolated them from the W&B chart.  If you look at the W&B chart in the AOI or the one posted above you will see the correlation between my numbers and the chart.  I have notes on how I came to this conclusion and will pull them and share the info once I locate them.

 

I also only have one C.G. range for all weights.....

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  • 2 weeks later...

Took me a while, but I dug through my notes and here is where I came up with for the 3 weight vs. CG limit scenarios mentioned above in my previous post.  

As I was reading through the many W&B threads I noticed that some folks had comments about being out of CG when loaded in many typical ways, as stated by other above and on other threads. I spent time online searching and found a few supplemental documents that CTSW renters/partnership folks had drafted.  2 of them pointed out the different CG ranges for different weights and highlighted how they came to this conclusion, using the AOI. 

If you pull up the AOI and go to the W&B page the image below can be found.  When you take a closer look at the graph showing the CG envelope you can clearly see that there are in fact 3 weights called out with specific CG limit points at each.  I then used the graph to plot the weights and CGs (see sample below) to get me the values to plug into Foreflight to generate a very similar CG envelope profile as shown in the AOI (it's not perfect since you have to extrapolate the weight and CG due to the missing granularity in the graph's values.

Below are 2 scenarios showing in and out of CG by only adding in 20 lbs in the baggage.

That all said I am by no means a professional nor am I claiming to be correct in the matter.  I'm only trying to get the right answer to make sure I am in compliance with the W&B needs of out CTSWs. 

I would love to get some feedback on my methodology (good or bad) to help me and others figure out what the right answer is for W&B calculations for our CTSWs.  I'm not here to debate my view as right or wrong (above are my opinions only), I'm simply here to learn as a new owner of a CTSW.

 

1098187019_ScreenShot2019-10-15at11_26_56AM.png.198b190b4a42b7d994fc0fab59329687.pngIMG_92C8240E99CE-1.thumb.jpeg.acf13b364b229b62f56733d9bf55a3a5.jpegIMG_2AAEB04DF0CE-1.thumb.jpeg.3e96f7f7202d9c45c895c9c034936f8a.jpeg

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21 hours ago, johnnyjr said:

Took me a while, but I dug through my notes and here is where I came up with for the 3 weight vs. CG limit scenarios mentioned above in my previous post.  

As I was reading through the many W&B threads I noticed that some folks had comments about being out of CG when loaded in many typical ways, as stated by other above and on other threads. I spent time online searching and found a few supplemental documents that CTSW renters/partnership folks had drafted.  2 of them pointed out the different CG ranges for different weights and highlighted how they came to this conclusion, using the AOI. 

If you pull up the AOI and go to the W&B page the image below can be found.  When you take a closer look at the graph showing the CG envelope you can clearly see that there are in fact 3 weights called out with specific CG limit points at each.  I then used the graph to plot the weights and CGs (see sample below) to get me the values to plug into Foreflight to generate a very similar CG envelope profile as shown in the AOI (it's not perfect since you have to extrapolate the weight and CG due to the missing granularity in the graph's values.

Below are 2 scenarios showing in and out of CG by only adding in 20 lbs in the baggage.

That all said I am by no means a professional nor am I claiming to be correct in the matter.  I'm only trying to get the right answer to make sure I am in compliance with the W&B needs of out CTSWs. 

I would love to get some feedback on my methodology (good or bad) to help me and others figure out what the right answer is for W&B calculations for our CTSWs.  I'm not here to debate my view as right or wrong (above are my opinions only), I'm simply here to learn as a new owner of a CTSW.

 

1098187019_ScreenShot2019-10-15at11_26_56AM.png.198b190b4a42b7d994fc0fab59329687.pngIMG_92C8240E99CE-1.thumb.jpeg.acf13b364b229b62f56733d9bf55a3a5.jpegIMG_2AAEB04DF0CE-1.thumb.jpeg.3e96f7f7202d9c45c895c9c034936f8a.jpeg

I think you methodology is correct, That is basically the same way i created my envelope for me calculator.

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