Andy A Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 Our CTLSi has the Dynon Skyview system. On landing, when I am abeam the numbers, I pull the throttle to idle. The ball immediately goes to the left and requires a lot of left rudder to keep it centered. This results in a skid, if not properly coordinated, at our airport's right hand pattern. Just curious if the CT's are actually skidding as much as the ball makes it look, or is the Skyview system so fast to respond, does it make it look like the its worse than it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 All airplanes seem to do this to some extent, but it is more pronounced in the CT. If you don't feed in the left rudder the airplane will turn pretty hard to the Right. Watch the sight picture out the front of the airplane and see how much the nose swings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 Yeah, normal. The CT requires rudder with large throttle changes, left rudder when retarding throttle and right rudder when increasing throttle. Fly along at 3000rpm for a few minutes, then go wide open and you'll see the same thing, but requiring right rudder. The CT is a rudder airplane, you have to learn to use your feet and dance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 10 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said: Yeah, normal. The CT requires rudder with large throttle changes, left rudder when retarding throttle and right rudder when increasing throttle. Fly along at 3000rpm for a few minutes, then go wide open and you'll see the same thing, but requiring right rudder. The CT is a rudder airplane, you have to learn to use your feet and dance! Ditto cubed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Yeo Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 I am thinking it is a front wheel pant problem for the whole CT line. But can only speak for my SW. whole different airplane with the front wheel pant off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdarza Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 Yup... this seems normal for the CT. Active rudder most of the time. I agree with you Dennis, the front pant acts like a mini front rudder to some degree. Im having to push rudder either left or right to try and get the sweet center spot. Typically easy to do with a 90kts-95kts IAS. When past 100kts its usually pulling a little left of right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 What you are noticing when you reduce the thrust to idle power is a reduction in the 4 left turning tendencies (torque, p-factor, gyroscopic precession, and slip stream). At cruise power, the engine is making left turning tendencies which are countered by the trim of the rudder/vertical stab. Only when you go to power levels greater than cruise should you need to hold right rudder to counter the additional left turning tendencies. When you reduce power to idle, however, there is a drastic reduction in the left turning tendencies so that the right trim that is built into the system for cruise power is no longer needed and the aircraft becomes uncoordinated. This needs to be countered by adding left rudder when at idle power. Some aircraft have their engines mounted with the thrust line obviously angled to the right as part of the strategy to counter left turning tendencies. Haven't noticed this on the FD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Yeo Posted December 4, 2019 Report Share Posted December 4, 2019 I should have some have some good data in a couple of weeks. Here is a interesting picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Yeo Posted December 4, 2019 Report Share Posted December 4, 2019 hmmmm. Look who is test flying the new F2e with out a front wheel pant. Bet they are still having yawing problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted December 4, 2019 Report Share Posted December 4, 2019 On 12/3/2019 at 1:22 AM, cdarza said: Yup... this seems normal for the CT. Active rudder most of the time. I agree with you Dennis, the front pant acts like a mini front rudder to some degree. Im having to push rudder either left or right to try and get the sweet center spot. Typically easy to do with a 90kts-95kts IAS. When past 100kts its usually pulling a little left of right. This must be a tundra pant issue, I have the small non-tundra pants and have no issues (or at least none I can notice) with this. But I do know at least one owner with tundra pants who had *horrible* yaw issues until a revised pant was installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted December 4, 2019 Report Share Posted December 4, 2019 My plane is a year old, have tundra pants. It would stand to reason because there is more surface area with the tundra pant. I do not have yaw issues. Dennis, thank you for the pics. Is there any chance you can remove the pant and take another pic pantless? Not you of course, just the plane. Seriously, it will be interesting to see if the laser is centered down the wheel. What I did learn when my tie rod bolt started pulling out... is there are two adjustable tie rod ends connected to the pedals, used in steering the front wheel. One tie rod end had more thread exposed than the other, however, I eyeballed the front wheel and pant and all was straight. There may be a way to adjust and fix the yaw issue by adjusting the 2 tie rod ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted December 4, 2019 Report Share Posted December 4, 2019 IIRC both the thrust line and the front gear are slightly offset on the CT series. Dennis' picture looks about how I would expect that laser line to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Yeo Posted December 4, 2019 Report Share Posted December 4, 2019 I don’t think by design the wheel would be centered. Remember the engine is also pitched down and angled to the left by design. Can you take a picture of your tundra pant for me. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted December 4, 2019 Report Share Posted December 4, 2019 Yes I will send a photo of it - straight on like yours ok? Andy, I knew about the engine offset, but you believe that the front wheel is offset as well? I wonder how the FD Dealers dial the wheel offset in after say a major repair? It is an interesting subject I am glad it was brought up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Yeo Posted December 4, 2019 Report Share Posted December 4, 2019 Side picture would be better. Interesting to see how much surface area you have up front in front of the tire on the new tundra pant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted December 4, 2019 Report Share Posted December 4, 2019 1 hour ago, AGLyme said: Yes I will send a photo of it - straight on like yours ok? Andy, I knew about the engine offset, but you believe that the front wheel is offset as well? I wonder how the FD Dealers dial the wheel offset in after say a major repair? It is an interesting subject I am glad it was brought up. I believe so, if you look at the bottom of the cowl, the gear leg hole is not centered as I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted December 5, 2019 Report Share Posted December 5, 2019 Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted December 5, 2019 Report Share Posted December 5, 2019 Wheel offset doesn't need to be "dialed in" after a repair, BTW. The gear leg mount is part of the engine mount, so the geometry is fixed. If you put a new engine mount on, you'd just slide the nose gear into it and adjust the pushrods to the pedals so that the airplane tracks straight on the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 Dennis, I've spent a lot of time working on and around my front gear on my 2006 CTSW these past 10 years. I have removed it 3 to 4 times to work on it and I do not recall having any of the offset that your picture seems to show. Actually, I found a picture I took of my CT with my laser running down the center of the fuselage from the tail going forward to my front gear. I did this to see if my gear was centered. See my picture below. It shows my nose gear being pretty much on center to the fuselage. Based on your investigation, it does appear that the pant is involved with the yaw. Yet, your picture seems to show the radiator opening in your cowl has a "crooked smile". This opening doesn't appear to be level but seems to have and upward slant going left to right. It also looks like the cowl and opening not centered but is offset to the right. This either makes the front gear look like it has an offset to the left or, if the cowl is really centered, the strut does have an offset to the left. Running a string, or your laser down the center line of the bottom of the fuselage from the tail to the center of the front gear should tell you if the gear is offset to the center line of the fuselage. Has your CT had a previous owner? Just wondering if there might have been a hard landing on the front gear? We all know that the Achilles heel of all LSA aircraft is the front gear. Very easy to be "tweaked". I wish our front gears were more robust but it is what it is for a 1,320lb aircraft. I've spent a lot of time making sure the strut/wheel/pant are centered and have made custom spacers for the pant and reworked the aligning pin that aligns the pant to the strut to do this. I'll look at my CT but I really don't recall having this type of offset of my gear to the left and have my cowl going right, as yours seems to show. Just flew today. Cold temps here in Michigan and true airspeed was over 120kts. I have the Tundra option and do not have a yaw issue but the rudder is highly sensitive on the CT, especially at this speed. Just takes a very slight pressure on pedals to move the nose and, if overdone, correction is needed to bring the nose back in line. As mentioned by Andy and John, it is a little dance we all do to keep the ball on center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 At the airport today preflighting for Saturday. Took the pic as promised. The front pant looks quite straight from an eyeball perspective. Not sure if that fact shows in the pic however. Don’t know why the pic is sideways sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Yeo Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 I have the drawing from Germany and it appears the gear should be lined up worth the center line of the airplane. I trimmed off the front of the nose pant and it made a very big difference. But still doesn’t fly as nice as with out the pant. I really appreciate all of your feed back. I will pull the cowl off and re laser it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Yeo Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 If any of you have a side photo of your nose tundra pant, I would appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 here you go Dennis... taken by the great Kent Wien. My job was to just fly straight, Kent did all the skill work in this air to air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animosity2k Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 2 hours ago, AGLyme said: here you go Dennis... taken by the great Kent Wien. My job was to just fly straight, Kent did all the skill work in this air to air. Whats the wrap on Kents Pitot? Just decorative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 I guess I was wrong about the gear being slightly offset. Age and senility are terrible things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.