Jump to content
corvette33

5 yr. hose and rubber parts replacement

Recommended Posts

I understand there is a mandatory replacement of hoses and rubber parts on the Rotax at 5 years? As a new owner can you bring me up to speed. Also what is the deal on the "soft start" module? Is it necessary? I understand both Rotax and Bully Hawk make one. Which would you reccomend and why? Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Soft Start is a separate Mfg and makes the Soft Start after market add on. This is the less expensive way to go.

Rotax incorporates their soft start system within the ignition modules. So to use the Rotax system you would have to buy both Rotax ignition modules which is good, but expensive. To answer your question, they are not mandatory, but absolutely make a difference.

 

The 5 year rubber parts replacement is mandatory for all 2006 CTSW's or any SLSA with a Rotax 912 this year and if you have a 2005 CTSW and it hasn't been done then you are out of airworthy and need to get it done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Runtoeat   

Hi Corvette33, I'm not sure if you have a new CT or purchased a used one? Your CT should have a library of all Rotax and Flight Design service bulletins that pertain to your aircraft. If your CT was purchased used, this list could be extensive, especially in regards to Rotax bulletins. You may already have this but it is best to have a library for all Flight Design and Rotax service bulletins pertaining to your specific aircraft. FD and Rotax has summaries and detailed documents of all service bulletins on their websites. As for this hose replacement, there is a great deal of information on this forum and the specific Rotax service bulletin for this is found here. Get out your wallet when it's time for you to do the hose replacement!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies. I recently purchased a 2007 CTSW, but have not yet taken delivery from the dealer. If this will need the hose replacement done next year I guess I might as well have it done before taking delivery. Does anyone know what an approximate price might be to have this completed?

Also, I understand that the Bully Hawk soft start is available. Will I need a LOA to have it installed on My CT? From the videos I have seen on this product it would seem to be beneficial. Anyone have any experience with this product?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Corvette,

 

The Soft Start for a Rotax or the Rotax soft start style ignition modules are beneficial. It does make a difference. You would need an LOA from FD. Price may vary some between mechanics on the rubber replacement. Plan on somewhere in the neighborhood of $2500-$3200 depending on the mechanic, rates and if your CT has the thermostats. It's only once every 5 years because you can't pull over to the curb if any line breaks and loosing an oil line would be death for your $19K engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had violent kick-back issues with my ROTAX-powered Sky Arrow.

 

The Soft Start module definitely helped - a very worthwhile addition IMHO.

 

Some description and photos here:

 

http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/374-bullyhawk-soft-start-install-rotax-questions/page__p__2189__hl__%2Bsoft+%2Bstart__fromsearch__1#entry2189

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim   

I had violent kick-back issues with my ROTAX-powered Sky Arrow.

 

The Soft Start module definitely helped - a very worthwhile addition IMHO.

 

Some description and photos here:

 

http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/374-bullyhawk-soft-start-install-rotax-questions/page__p__2189__hl__%2Bsoft+%2Bstart__fromsearch__1#entry2189

 

Any idea why some planes have it and some don't? I probably have 500 starts on my CT and don't remember it ever being a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jim,

 

So far as I have been able to ascertain it is a function of the cold with the amount of charge in the battery. The lower the battery charge the worse it is and of course throw in a cold morning when things are a little stiffer and then you get the kick back. When I make sure my battery is at a complete and full charge even a cold morning is a good start. The ones with the kick back don't usually have the same problem in warm or hot weather.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim   

I guess that would explain it. I've probably never started it below about 30F and if the plane sits longer than 2 weeks I put the charger on the battery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any idea why some planes have it and some don't? I probably have 500 starts on my CT and don't remember it ever being a problem.

 

Not sure.

 

The Bullyhawk site gives an extensive list of things to look for.

 

A fully charged battery certainly helps. My Sky Arrow has a pretty long run from the battery to the starter (battery in the nose, high-mounted engine), and that may cause some voltage drop.

 

It also seems like once you've had it kick back so hard so many times, something starts to loosen up in the starter sprague clutch (I think), and that makes the problem even worse, in a vicious cycle.

 

On a very cold day (less that 30ºF) it still takes about 3 tries to get running, still trying to find the perfect combination of "choke" and throttle position. But its worlds less violent than it was before, and hot starts are as "soft" as one could ever wish for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jacques   

yep..the cold makes the difference...even with the lower compression 80 hp and a full charged battery.

 

pre-warming the engine is the way to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim   

I'd put money on the length of the battery cables. On a CT they are about 8".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Runtoeat   

Some thoughts on things I've found while starting my CTSW. The starter on all of our CT's has a sprage clutch. This allows overun of the engine flywheel gear to the starter gear when the engine starts, unlike automotive systems. This means that one can keep the starter engaged even after the engine "catches" and starts. I hold my ignition key on "start" until I am sure that the engine is fully started and running. This means holding on "start" for just one or more seconds longer after the engine catches. I have found that the throttle cannot be opened, even a small amount, or the engine will not start. As for my choke, I have found the "sweet spots" (two positions) where the engine will start in "partial" cold and where it will start in "full" cold. My choke "overchokes" in the "full on" position if I start the engine after the plane has been hangared and is partially cold. I must use "full on" choke if I fly to a location where the plane sits exposed to the cold for a period of time. I have put paint marks for the two positions for the choke. To find the sweet spot for partial cold, increase and decrease the choke immediately after starting and listen to the engine. I don't seem to have any kickbacks or issues during starting using this procedure.

 

Note: I edited this reply after realizing that the subject for this thread is "5 year rubber hose replacement". Perhaps comments pertaining to "engine starting" might be moved to a more appropriate" thread?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim   

Great advice about the sprage clutch. I suspected it had one based on the sounds it makes, but it's good to know for sure that it's safe to keep spinning the starter for a second or two if it's sluggish kicking over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 912 is due next month for the 5 year rubber hose & parts replacement. Does anyone know if any of the U.S. Rotax suppliers (CPS maybe?)have made up a kit with all the required bits and pieces to do this job? It would sure make it easier than searching locally for all the different size hoses needed to complete the task.

I expect it will be cheaper to source the parts from the USA rather than here in Australia thanks to the current strength of the $AUD and I might as well buy an Oetiker kit while I am at it.

Any tips & information from someone who has already done the job would also be appreciated so I can pass it on to my mechanic.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Dave,

 

California Power Systems (CPS) has kits already setup in their system. I gave them a kit list and talking to them the other day they have sold several. All you need to do is ask for the CT rubber hose replacement kit and your ready to go. You will need to tell them if you have the stainless steel carb feed lines or the red rubber carb feed lines. These are the ones that come off right on top at the cross over tube between the carbs and a line goes into each carb. This is the fuel line that feeds each carb. All most all 2006 CT's will have the stainless lines, but I know of 1-2 guys that put in the red rubber fuel lines to the carbs and now at the 5 year rubber replacement they need to be changed. That is another $338. I think I'll leave mine stainless. Then the kit comes with the rubber diaphragms for the carbs. If you want to just go ahead and rebuild the carbs then delete the diaphragms and order the 912ULS carb rebuild kit. It is $249. The CEET duct tubing which is the 3" air intake tubing on each side for each carb and the 1 3/4" CEET tubing under the engine that comes off the muffler and goes to the cabin heat needs replacement. You can get that from Aircraft Spruce on line. Here is the info: 2 ft. of the 1 3/4" CEET duct part # 05-30507 at $7.25 per ft. and the 3" CEET duct tube get 3' part #05-30512 at $8.75 per ft. (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/ceet.php).

You will need an assortment of Oetiker one ear stainless band clamps and a set of pliers. I would get the pliers that can pinch from the front and side #1099. Here is a site to get you started.

http://www.kegkits.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=OCLAMP

You can buy the kit here for $54 and side pliers for $25. I would also, while you are at it, pick up 25 extra of each of these next sizes because you will need them for different hoses and the firesleeve and you can't just run down to the store to pick some extra clamps up.

13.3-706R = 10.8-13.3, 14.5-706R = 12.0-14, 17.0-706R = 14.5-17, 18.5-706R = 15.3-18.5

21.0-706R = 17.8-21.0, 25.6-706R = 22.4-25.6, 33.1-706R = 29.9-33.1.

 

 

While your doing this don't forget the rubber engine isolators on each engine corner. These are the Fiat silent blocks. There are 16 of these and are $177 (total) from FD USA ( or here: http://www.fiat500ricambi.com/fiat600/?categorie=Rear+axles&product=AA1007)

 

Attached is the original CPS parts list. I have made 1-2 minor changes. Part #181409 is now 2' not 3', P211 is now 12' not 10', #181411 is now 2' not 3'. CPS already has these changes so leave what they have on the list alone. This was just my original list. If you don't want the carb diaphragms #861-115 then this is where you would ask to drop these and get the carb rebuild. Make sure you specify it is for the 912ULS and if you have an 912UL (80 hp) then tell them that as the rebuild kits are different.

 

 

I hope this helps some.

CPS-CT Hose replacement parts retail quote.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roger....thank you so much for taking the time to provide that information. You have made the process for me and I expect many others on this forum so much easier.

 

Regards,

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Runtoeat   

Hi Roger. I'm getting ready to order that parts I need to change the rubber on my 2006 CTSW. Is the kit that CPS now sells pretty much complete after allowing a few weeks for you and CPS to figure out all that is needed? I don't see any reference to the fuel hoses that we are supposed to change which run from the wings down thru the pillars to the cowl. Are these fuel lines extra and need to be ordered separate from the CPS kit? Also, are all of those oetiker clamps you show really needed, in addition to the standard clamp kit you show? Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Roger. I'm getting ready to order that parts I need to change the rubber on my 2006 CTSW. Is the kit that CPS now sells pretty much complete after allowing a few weeks for you and CPS to figure out all that is needed? I don't see any reference to the fuel hoses that we are supposed to change which run from the wings down thru the pillars to the cowl. Are these fuel lines extra and need to be ordered separate from the CPS kit? Also, are all of those oetiker clamps you show really needed, in addition to the standard clamp kit you show? Thanks.

 

Dick, Those lines are airframe items and not recognized by Rotax. I always change them and the lines going from there into the instrument panel where the fuel shut off is located as well. I always change the two 6 inch fuel lines at the wing root during the 2 year wing inspection.

 

The otiker clamps are great and recommended for the line attachment and the band clamp goes on the fire sleave to finish it all off. I used to hate those clamps until I figured out a very easy way of removing them. I use a long pair of Snap on dikes that have all the leverage and cut them like butter.

 

Tip of the day

When making up your lines with the fire sleave on it, allow a little extra fire sleave when a line has to be bent ( like the one to the oil pump). If not it will be too short.

Also a trick for getting the fire sleave on is to install a bolt in the rubber line and then blow shop air into the fire sleave and walk it on with no sweat.

And finally make sure the band clamps are not too tight, I had one restrict the fuel psi, but only did it at WOT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Dick,

 

Those hoses at the wing root are only about 8"-10" long. They do not run down through the pillar. They may have a crimped band clamp on them now, but I guarantee they didn't put them on after the metal line was pushed down through the "A" post. Those lines were clamped in place before then tubes were put in place. The only way to really remove them is to drill a small 1/2" - 5/8" hole in the inside part between the wing and fuselage and grind or drill them off. It. When you re-install them use a screw clamp that has a nut on the threaded end. Like the ones on the fuel site tubes or your oil hoses. Do not use our standard clamp with the open grooves cut in the band. Then from now on you can use a small socket to reach in and unscrew the clamp anytime you choose. The instrument panel lines are a mandatory change. We have been debating this issue on another forum as to which lines Rotax implies to change.

 

Rotax says the "fuel system" and does not specify firewall forward or aft. This seems to also be the consensus of that other group. The hoses in the CPS kit will take care of all your needs except the 3" and 1 3/4" CEET tubing for the air intakes and the cabin heat hose on top of the muffler. These aren't mandated, but most of them have been worn out and since everything is out of your way better to take care of it now or pay in sweat and tears later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Runtoeat   

Tad and Roger, thanks for the info. You guys are doing us a big favor to give up some of your tips that you've developed over the years working on Rotax engines.

 

Tad, I'll look for the Snap-on dike cutter you mention. In regards to blowing air in the fire sleeve...I assume you put the bolt into the fuel line to prevent any foreign matter from getting into it when you blow air into the fire sleeve? Good point about leaving the fire sleeve a little long.

 

Roger, I heard that there has been discussion on your Rotax forum regarding what hoses really need to be replaced. Reading the comments from those of you who have done the hose replacement, it appears that after 5 or 6 years, it is a good idea to replace all of the hoses anyway. Thanks for the tip regarding proper hose clamp to use on the wing root fuel lines. I picked up some of the clamps that have the stamped screw threads and not the cut threads and will use these.

 

Have you or Tad found a clear hose that won't turn yellow to use for the fuel sight level hoses?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Dick,

 

When I queried most of the tubing Mfg's a few years back they all told me their clear tubing will stain over time with 91 oct, because tubing is porous to some point. I don't even worry about it anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×