Deuce Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 I am new to the forum and I am not yet a CT owner. I am a former owner of a C-172 so I am using that as my point of reference. In discussing the purchase of a CT with my wife I suggested its use may sometimes be restricted by wind or bumpy conditions. She seemed worried that we might be buying a plane we can't use very often. Perhaps some of you can ease our minds a little in this area. For those who have flown a C-172 or equivalent, how would you compare the CTs ability to fly in the same conditions. Not so much as comfort level as much as go/no go decisions. Are there many times you would be staying home with a CT vs chosing to fly a heavier plane like the C-172 in the same conditions? Similarly, how many times or percentage of times per year do you NOT fly because of wind or bumpy conditions? Thanking you all in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassStripFlyBoy Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 Greetings Deuce, Fairly new owner here myself, after 20 years in Cessna 150 / 172's. As far as Go / No Go I played it safe on crosswind component for the first few months / 35 hours of flying now, plane is capable enough but does have a higher incident rate of runway excursions - that is a pilot skill factor not what you're asking, but the point I'm sharing. I've been out in some high wind + gusty conditions, steady in high teens & gusty into the low 20's, it gets bouncy as in any small aircraft in those conditions, but the bird takes it fine. It's more what do you want to be mixing it up in and deciding to launch. I'd say a CT can handle conditions comparable to light Cessna not too much lesser ability wise. Just as a student pilot builds skills over time, I'd reset to low minimums (mine was 10kts with 5 x-wind at first) build the experience, and this plane will get you out in about as much as you want to be flying in. Four months into my CT, zero regrets, absolutely love it and don't miss the Cessna except for the baggage area access from seated position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 I too came from the 172/152 (rental) world. With respect to your question, I actually find that the CT is more comfortable on windy days during the travel phase of the trip. Others can comment on the Scientific wing loading theory of why... Taking off is similar to a 152... Landing is much different. The 172 is easier for 3 reasons: the landing gear is wider, foolproof really, the lightness of the CT demands way more rudder inputs than the CT... akin to a taildragger, and, the overall landing technique was harder for me to learn in the CT. My home airport is known for its constant shear. A great place to learn. I have never scared myself but my early solo landings were not pretty. The plane loves to fly, and one has to be ahead of a light plane due to the lack of (weight induced) momentum. I hope I don’t jinx myself by saying that I am comfortable landing now in 10 gusting to 15 kts (+ the inevitable shear)... but I am. When my pals go for lunch, I go too and pass a few on the way. I can’t think of a time where I have had to drop out due to wind. I’ll finish by saying that the flying experience (visibility, glass panel, auto pilot, etc) for both pilot and passenger are head and shoulders above a 172 that i could afford. The CTLSi is a blast and cheap to operate and insure. Great luck on your search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 I'd say it's mostly down to the pilot's comfort level. I have landed with winds at 24G32 right down the runway, and direct crosswinds of 15kt+. The former was actually not bad, the latter was a handful but doable. In both cases it was a case of "well I'm in the air and these are the conditions I have to land at" -- I didn't intentionally seek out those conditions. As in any airplane, gusts are much more of a challenge than steady winds, and more so in the CT versus a 172 because of lighter overall weight and lower wing loading. If you feel like you are nearing your limits, be johnny-on-the-spot with the throttle and go around if it gets dicey at any point. When I first started out with the CT I limited myself to 12kt total wind and 8kt or so crosswinds. That worked well and I just worked up from there as my skills and confidence improved. Beware that landing a 172 is kind of "easy mode" compared to a CT, because of the weight/wing loading issues mentioned above, plus a narrower (and less robust) landing gear, stronger adverse yaw, and other differences. But once you get the hang of it, landing a CT becomes a lot of fun. I have ~1200 landings in my CT in many different conditions and haven't bent anything yet...and I have had more than my share of "suboptimal" landings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ct9000 Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 The crosswind ability is not a problem to the CT it is more a problem to the pilot, as has been said. A crosswind of 20kt does not bother me at all. the book value of 16kt is demonstrated and not the limit. As far as lumpy wind shear type weather goes, you will give up a long time before the airplane will. Any light aircraft will move around a bit more than a heavier one, but your skill level will determine how well that works out. The CT will "fight back" better than the 172 because of the exceptional agility so a bit more movement is not really an issue. As an example if you are on late final in a 172 and hit 600ft/min shear, you will maybe hit a bit hard trying to go around due to lack of acceleration. Same situation in a CT, almost instant acceleration and go around is easy. Yes you need more rudder skills and have to be a bit quicker on the controls. Ps I am biased, about 1800 landings in CT and only about 300 in C150/C172 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 Glad you mentioned the CT’s go around ability... it is definitely not your Grandfather’s Cessna. CT climbs like crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robthart Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 One thing I've noticed that helps hugely on windy, gusty or crosswind landings is that if using flaps, getting them up immediately upon landing in a CT really helps with directional control (and staying) on the ground, much more noticeable than in a Cessna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 *Note: During Takeoffs/Go-Arounds, "Do not reduce the flaps to below 0º with less than 59 kts (110 km/h) airspeed." Flight Design Flight Training Supplement CTSW pg. 3-3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 Robt, As soon as I am firmly on the runway, I pop the flaps up to -6... makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportFlyer1 Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 Too bumpy is pretty much what you are willing to put up with. I have flown in very turbulent conditions that the plane didn't mind at all, but my kidneys got tired of it pretty fast, lol. As to crosswinds I have found that winds around 16 knots make it difficult and a bit scary to taxi around an airport. On landings in that kind of wind be sure to raise the flaps right away or a wing may lift and wheelbarrow you around. For takeoffs I refer you to this years' Page trip thread, where 2 airplanes crashed in 15 - 20 knot crosswinds, mine included. It is now just a pile of spare parts. So, put that 16 knots right on your checklist, if you'd like a long career flying the CT. It's a great plane and will take you most anywhere, have tons of fun with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 6, 2020 Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 1/4/2020 at 3:24 PM, WmInce said: *Note: During Takeoffs/Go-Arounds, "Do not reduce the flaps to below 0º with less than 59 kts (110 km/h) airspeed." Flight Design Flight Training Supplement CTSW pg. 3-3 I usually taxi & store my airplane with flaps at 0°. My thinking is that if there is a flap faliure on the ground and I have to fly it somewhere for repair, I can takeoff and land much easier at 0° than at -6°. When I land I put the flaps at 0°. The airplane definitely wants to sink below 60kt at -6° flaps. You can hold altitude there *with power*, but pull the power out below 60kt and you are coming down pretty briskly. I have landed at -6° flaps a couple of times just for the experience, but it's uncomfortable to me because of the speed required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassStripFlyBoy Posted January 6, 2020 Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 Ditto here, as well as if you run up to -6 then back to +15 for next take off you're using more time & distance possibly adding up to more wear on components long term over time? I've been stopping at zero just by default habit, seems like extra usage to go all the way up to -6 and then back to take off again. I've also instituted the tip of being slower than stated V speeds for each notch of flaps to save some wear on the flap system, easy enough to bleed about 5-10 more knots of speed than hitting the switch as soon as number is reached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted January 6, 2020 Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 Never thought about the "fly home" thing, it is a good point, but... safety (less lift in gusty conditions) first... I am 6 feet, prefer putting the Flaps away as much as possible (-6) for pre-flight, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceanplexian Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 I think the training supplement is referring specifically to go arounds. -6 really does help when on the ground on a gusty day. The trick is to not forget, a -6 takeoff is completely possible but it's not a fun experience since the climb profile shallows out. It almost feels like a Cherokee or a Cessna compared to the rocket ship experience we get with 15 flaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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