GrassStripFlyBoy Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just tucked the bird away after a :30 minute hop, 20 degrees outside and coldest I've been in to date. Noticed it took :10 for the oil to climb from about 110 up to the 122 minimum, can accept that colder temps fight the rate of temp gain in this season, will plan increased preheat for that. Motoring around at 5200 rpm for :30 I noticed both the oil and water temps stay real low, I think maybe 140F on oil was about highest I saw towards end of flight, may have been higher after climb out - did not look then. Here's my concern, when pulling power for downwind the oil temp started rapid decline, was at 110 by the time I was landing, so if I had to go around I'd not even be at recommended temp for full power. So, is this a typical winter cold climate situation that people live with? I'm thinking I should block off some of the radiator to maintain higher temps? When I was researching ski equipped CT's a while back I noticed one picture where a portion of radiator was blocked by aluminum strip, I know this is common on air cooled cowls as well, curious if there is a known size and what others may have already figured out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Gee Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 When it gets super cold in Mississippi (lower 20s upper 10s), I will block off about 1/2 - 3/4 of the radiator with tape. Has worked well. I am looking to make a metal plate that can be easily put on and taken off as one of my next projects. That helps with the in flight temps, but not much with the warm up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skunkworks85 Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 There is a fleet wide LOA for applying aluminum tape. Look under the LOAs in the forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ct9000 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 On my SW I used 2" wide strips of aluminium tape placed vertical. one piece each side will not do much in your sort of temps so try two pieces each side for a start. Another option is to buy a thermostat kit from Rotax for the oil and water. I have this setup with the large coolers on my LS turbo as standard and it works perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassStripFlyBoy Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 Appreciate the replies here, in doing a bit of searching I find several options on both oil and water thermostat control. I'll keep digging, and when I have a plan of what I might purchase I'll loop back. One interesting thread is on the Rotax owner site, I've been meaning to join that and will get the credit card out today. I'm leaning towards just doing the oil circuit, then if not happy with that I'd consider coolant circuit later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BravoFoxtrot Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 Look at the size of your oil cooler and compare to the size of the water radiator. On at least some of them, the oil cooler is smaller that the radiator. If you put tape on the outside edge of the radiator, you are not blocking off much of the cooler. I suggest you place the tape on the center of the radiator and add strips as needed next to that piece, working out. I can usually get by with one strip in cool weather and use a second piece when it is cold out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 IMO don't waste money on the thermostats, just use a strip of the foil tape. I always used a 2" wide piece all the way across the top here in South central Illinois. You might want to add an extra inch to the middle 8" to help a little more with oil temp. I have had both CTSW and CTLS. The CTLS has the thermostats as standard equipment, and I still wound up using a strip of tape. You will need to be cautious when Spring comes. When the air temps reach about 60° you could start to see the coolant get hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 The nice thing about the thermostat is if you deal with renters, you don't have to worry about them forgetting to take the tape off and damaging the engine. But in extremely cold weather you need the tape anyways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 I use the 2" foil tape vertically. One strip for temps in the 40's, two strips for high 30's, and three strips for lower 30's. It doesn't get much colder than that in this part or Oregon so haven't had a need for more. Finding the right amount is an experimental process. you may have to climb at higher airspeed if it's getting too hot. If you have too much tape it will cool off really quick if power is reduced or throttle closed. So, stay close to an airport until you get some experience. I have brought temps up to near redline in climb while figuring it out. Leveling off and reducing to 3000 RPM or so will cool it of in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassStripFlyBoy Posted January 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 Ok, sounds like tape is the plan, and thanks for the tips and such. I did not locate the LOA, not that I care much - it is more I was looking for the brand or source of the tape. Is the aluminum tape from home improvement stores acceptable here? Any type to avoid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 You want a good quality foil tape with or without a paper backing. I know one roll I have is 3M brand. A good heating air company that does duct work should have some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey70 Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 All great ideas, ultimately we want to modulate the air flow so that oil temps run in the Green during cruise. I tried a metal plate bolted on to the cooler but I found that at outside temps around 40 F temps were getting too high and at 30 F without the plate they were way too low. I am now using pieces of Ester Foam (Grey, lightweight and easily compressed) to partially block the air flow. As outside temperatures change these blocks can easily be adjusted to changed the amount of cooling. The block I started with was 3 inches thick and I also made plugs to block the drafty openings in the wings by using different hole saws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animosity2k Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 What brand tape are you all using? Do you have any photos of how your applying it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyjr Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Not sure where it came from but since I noticed it last week during condition inspection I thought I’d add it to the list. my CTSW has a knob near the rudder peddles attached to a cable that runs over to the radiator, pulling the knob closes slides over the radiator to block air flow. It can be adjusted in flight and is a very cool setup when operating in colder temps. Around here it never dips below 30 and rarely hits 40s so I have little need for the add on. Might be worth a call to FD to figure out what this would cost. Looks like a rather simple bolt on. wont be near the plane till this weekend, but will take pics once I am there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 hours ago, johnnyjr said: Not sure where it came from but since I noticed it last week during condition inspection I thought I’d add it to the list. my CTSW has a knob near the rudder peddles attached to a cable that runs over to the radiator, pulling the knob closes slides over the radiator to block air flow. It can be adjusted in flight and is a very cool setup when operating in colder temps. Around here it never dips below 30 and rarely hits 40s so I have little need for the add on. Might be worth a call to FD to figure out what this would cost. Looks like a rather simple bolt on. wont be near the plane till this weekend, but will take pics once I am there. Did your plane come from Minnesota? There was a mechanic for the distributor up there that designed and installed a system like that. The only problem was that it blocked some air when all was open. On some airplanes this caused an issue for summer operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Tom Baker said: Did your plane come from Minnesota? There was a mechanic for the distributor up there that designed and installed a system like that. The only problem was that it blocked some air when all was open. On some airplanes this caused an issue for summer operations. Is there a Flight Design approval for this? I've got one in my shop. I keep wondering if I should just put it on for winter only. But, I am S-LSA not E-LSA and don't want to put it on unless approved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 36 minutes ago, sandpiper said: Is there a Flight Design approval for this? I've got one in my shop. I keep wondering if I should just put it on for winter only. But, I am S-LSA not E-LSA and don't want to put it on unless approved. I'm not sure, but there might have been one. That was kind of back in the cowboy days before everyone really understood the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassStripFlyBoy Posted January 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 4 hours ago, sandpiper said: Is there a Flight Design approval for this? I've got one in my shop. I keep wondering if I should just put it on for winter only. But, I am S-LSA not E-LSA and don't want to put it on unless approved. I might be in the market if you decide to not use it, and curious to see a picture of one of these items to possibly fab one up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Tape is the answer! Once you start using it you'll get a feel for how much you need, and you just add or subtract a bit based on OAT before each flight. I have flown at temps in the 20s with oil temps in the 180-200°F range, though it did require a lot of tape. Oil temp is more important than CHT, so put your tape on the upper right side of the radiator (as you are looking at it from the front) to make sure it blocks flow to the oil cooler. Keep an eye on both oil and CHT to verify you have the correct amount of tape on...while you are getting the hang of how much to use, you might have to land and pull a little off or add some (you can just shut down briefly on a taxiway to do that). If it's really cold there might be a limit to how much tape you can put on, because getting your oil really warm you might have to blank out too much of the radiator and cause CHT to get too high. At really cold temps you might have to accept oil temps in the 160-175°F range to keep your CHT reasonable. I've never had CHT get dangerously high, but I have seen it go up a good bit. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said: Oil temp is more important than CHT, so put your tape on the upper right side of the radiator (as you are looking at it from the front) to make sure it blocks flow to the oil cooler. Keep an eye on both oil and CHT to verify you have the correct amount of tape on...while you are getting the hang of how much to use, you might have to land and pull a little off or add some (you can just shut down briefly on a taxiway to do that). The oil cooler is typically centered on the radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 17 minutes ago, Tom Baker said: The oil cooler is typically centered on the radiator. Not on my CTSW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocRon Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Gentlemen! I think I have a better solution. I flew a CTLS in northern Minnesota for three years. I flew (occasionally) at -20F and weekly between 0F and 30F in our extended winter. An easy, non-sticky solution for getting the engine warm and still being able to regulate the temperature is to use about two-inch think foam rubber (the squeezable kind). Just cut two pieces slightly larger than the air intake. Take one piece and cut out the middle six inches giving you two pieces about four inches wide. On the remaining large piece cut out the middle four inches giving you two pieces five inches wide. Insert the two four inch pieces on each side of the air intake (leaving a six inch opening in the middle) when you fly between 0F and (about) 35F. Insert the two five-inch pieces on each side of the air intake (leaving a four inch opening in the middle) when you fly below 0F. Modify these numbers for your personal situations. This worked beautifully for me and was easy to put in and take out, not to mention not having to clean sticky residue in the Spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 4 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said: Not on my CTSW. That's why I said typically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 061113_FD_Manufacturer_Approval_for_Alu_foil_tape (1).pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Thanks Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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