Flying in moderate to heavy precip

[Animosity2k]

Was out flying yesterday and on the way home there was a storm cell brewing. Got on the radio w/ Cleveland Approach control and they helped vector me around it. I unfortunately caught part of it right before I made it back to my home airport. It was what I would imagine could be considered moderate to heavy. I couldn't see much outside at all and I kept getting splashes of water on me despite the windows closed (I think it was coming in maybe through the inspection windows at the top of the cockpit?). When I landed and we went to pull our rollerblades out of the storage I also noticed some water around where the BRS chute is in the center (is this common?). Ultimately I started wondering exactly how much water could the aircraft sustain before you would worry about loosing lift or before the engine would bog down from flooding (if that's even a thing?). 

Thanks in advance! 

[okent]

Curious, any issues with water entering the pitot tube?  Wonder if its possible for enough to get in and block the system.

[Garrett Gee]

10 minutes ago, okent said:

Curious, any issues with water entering the pitot tube?  Wonder if its possible for enough to get in and block the system.

Can confirm. Has happened to me once. It was probably more heavy rain (note: E-LSA and was on IFR), and the airspeed held fine in cruise. Once I reduced power to slow down for approach, I got an airspeed disagree message on the Dynon. One was about 15 knots off of the other side, and was quite erratic jumping 3-6 knots. Once on the ground, I guess the water drained on its own, as I didn’t have any further issues. Also found out the CT leaks pretty bad on moderate/heavy rain. Thankfully, I also found this out while washing it, and had put all of my manuals in a large zip lock bag.

 

My theory is that water entered the pitot tube and got trapped, but didn’t make it all the way through the system (I do have a water trap in place). Once the pitot had no more air being rammed in, the water was able to drain from the pitot tube. Completely a theory though. I won’t be doing that again though. A pitot tube with a drain would probably solve this.

[Animosity2k]

8 hours ago, garrettgee2001 said:

Can confirm. Has happened to me once. It was probably more heavy rain (note: E-LSA and was on IFR), and the airspeed held fine in cruise. Once I reduced power to slow down for approach, I got an airspeed disagree message on the Dynon. One was about 15 knots off of the other side, and was quite erratic jumping 3-6 knots. Once on the ground, I guess the water drained on its own, as I didn’t have any further issues. Also found out the CT leaks pretty bad on moderate/heavy rain. Thankfully, I also found this out while washing it, and had put all of my manuals in a large zip lock bag.

 

My theory is that water entered the pitot tube and got trapped, but didn’t make it all the way through the system (I do have a water trap in place). Once the pitot had no more air being rammed in, the water was able to drain from the pitot tube. Completely a theory though. I won’t be doing that again though. A pitot tube with a drain would probably solve this.

Also had issues w/ lots of stuff in the CT getting wet! Thankfully I was only stuck in it for less then 5 minutes. I never gave much thought to the pitot tube, is there a drain in them? I didn't notice any issues in the airspeed nor handling. 

[Garrett Gee]

1 hour ago, Animosity2k said:

Also had issues w/ lots of stuff in the CT getting wet! Thankfully I was only stuck in it for less then 5 minutes. I never gave much thought to the pitot tube, is there a drain in them? I didn't notice any issues in the airspeed nor handling. 

The Dynon pitot booms do not have a drain in them. The heated pitot tubes do though.

[AGLyme]

I wonder if other planes with easy off/on wings have leakage issues.  All gliders, Kitfox, Aerotec forex... does anyone know?

i wash the plane a lot, the airport spigot is 100 feet from my hangar so pushing it there is simple and have only been caught in the rain once (outside Cleveland) and not a drop in the cabin. 
I’ll bet the difference is in the white pvc tape application.  FD USA did mine.

 

[Animosity2k]

57 minutes ago, AGLyme said:

I wonder if other planes with easy off/on wings have leakage issues.  All gliders, Kitfox, Aerotec forex... does anyone know?

i wash the plane a lot, the airport spigot is 100 feet from my hangar so pushing it there is simple and have only been caught in the rain once (outside Cleveland) and not a drop in the cabin. 
I’ll bet the difference is in the white pvc tape application.  FD USA did mine.

 

When washing your saying you get no rain into the airplane? 

[Animosity2k]

1 hour ago, garrettgee2001 said:

The Dynon pitot booms do not have a drain in them. The heated pitot tubes do though.

What is the repercussion or rain entering and not having a drain?

[FlyingMonkey]

I don't have a huge issue with water in my CT, and it has sat out in (sometimes heavy) rain a few times.  I find a little water in the floor, but never more than a cup or two.

When washing, always spray the hose toward the back of the airplane.  If you spray the wing roots from the rear, water will blow in through the flap tube openings at the root and spray your whole cockpit and baggage compartment.  I spray to the rear only and my airplane is dry as a bone inside after washing.  Also obviously close the vent sliders and latch the doors so they seal as well as possible.

[Garrett Gee]

2 hours ago, Animosity2k said:

What is the repercussion or rain entering and not having a drain?

You could, get erratic/unreliable air speeds. Water can block the line, preventing ram air from entering the pitot and basically render the airspeed unusable. Also, if you don’t have a water trap, water could conceivably make it to the ADAHRS, and damage it. It would probably take a lot of water (heavy rain) to get to that point though.

[Garrett Gee]

3 hours ago, AGLyme said:

I wonder if other planes with easy off/on wings have leakage issues.  All gliders, Kitfox, Aerotec forex... does anyone know?

i wash the plane a lot, the airport spigot is 100 feet from my hangar so pushing it there is simple and have only been caught in the rain once (outside Cleveland) and not a drop in the cabin. 
I’ll bet the difference is in the white pvc tape application.  FD USA did mine.

 

I do imagine the tape would help with water ingress. My wings haven’t had the tape on them. I may try the tape and next time I get the chance to play in the rain, I’ll see if I notice a difference.

[Animosity2k]

44 minutes ago, garrettgee2001 said:

I do imagine the tape would help with water ingress. My wings haven’t had the tape on them. I may try the tape and next time I get the chance to play in the rain, I’ll see if I notice a difference.

I have the bolus tape all over and still have issues with water. 

[AGLyme]

4 hours ago, Animosity2k said:

When washing your saying you get no rain into the airplane? 

Correct.  None.

[AGLyme]

2 hours ago, garrettgee2001 said:

I do imagine the tape would help with water ingress. My wings haven’t had the tape on them. I may try the tape and next time I get the chance to play in the rain, I’ll see if I notice a difference.

I will take pics of the tape scheme when next up at the airport if it helps.  

[okent]

Yes, please post a pic.  Also, if anyone can get a pic of the water trap I'd like to add that to my plane as well.

Haven't flown in an rain and have worried that I may loose airspeed from the pitot.

I read a blog about the guy who flew from the US to Europe and he had a lot of trouble with rain in the pitot.(plus ice but that's a whole other issue)

[Madhatter]

I wrote this earlier about the pitot system. It's all a downhill grade on the sw with no elevation near the pitot tube. Water will get in the system in moderate rain. ADAHRS are expensive.

[FlyingMonkey]

18 hours ago, Animosity2k said:

I have the bolus tape all over and still have issues with water. 

Because you can't tape where the water enters, which is the gap between the flaps and the fuselage.  The flaps have to move, so you can't tape there.  Look in that gap with the flaps all the way down and you can see directly into the cockpit & baggage bay through the pass-through for the flap actuation tube.  There's no way to seal that area up without disabling or introducing drag/binding on the flap system.

In flight this is not an issue because you're moving forward and the water streams away from this area.  On the ground in heavy rain you might get some water inside, though I usually don't.  Parking with flaps at 0° instead of 15° or more will probably allow the least amount of water to enter.  You could also if possible park with the nose pointed slightly uphill and that will help the water drain away from the problem area.

[Tom Baker]

1 hour ago, FlyingMonkey said:

Because you can't tape where the water enters, which is the gap between the flaps and the fuselage.  The flaps have to move, so you can't tape there.  Look in that gap with the flaps all the way down and you can see directly into the cockpit & baggage bay through the pass-through for the flap actuation tube.  There's no way to seal that area up without disabling or introducing drag/binding on the flap system.

In flight this is not an issue because you're moving forward and the water streams away from this area.  On the ground in heavy rain you might get some water inside, though I usually don't.  Parking with flaps at 0° instead of 15° or more will probably allow the least amount of water to enter.  You could also if possible park with the nose pointed slightly uphill and that will help the water drain away from the problem area.

Andy, this is an area where the CTLS is a little different than the SW. The SW the flap connection is in the baggage, and if water gets in there it goes to the bottom and drains out, not a big deal. Normally only the very forward part of the baggage will get damp.  The LS has the hat shelf, and the flap connection is on the cabin side of the rear wall. There is a molded headliner of sorts which directs the water to the sides, but it drains into the hat shelf tray. It can hold at least a 1/2" of water, maybe more. Anything on the tray will get soaked.

[AGLyme]

2 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said:

Parking with flaps at 0° instead of 15° or more will probably allow the least amount of water to enter

My flaps are always at -6 in the hangar as I believe it is safer for walking around during pre-flight.  When I pull the plane out of the hangar to go to the water spigot, the flaps are still set to -6 degs which is probably why I don't have a leak issue.  I have an LS.

[Animosity2k]

3 hours ago, AGLyme said:

My flaps are always at -6 in the hangar as I believe it is safer for walking around during pre-flight.  When I pull the plane out of the hangar to go to the water spigot, the flaps are still set to -6 degs which is probably why I don't have a leak issue.  I have an LS.

I still get plenty in my LS @ 6*.

[Animosity2k]

5 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said:

Because you can't tape where the water enters, which is the gap between the flaps and the fuselage.  The flaps have to move, so you can't tape there.  Look in that gap with the flaps all the way down and you can see directly into the cockpit & baggage bay through the pass-through for the flap actuation tube.  There's no way to seal that area up without disabling or introducing drag/binding on the flap system.

In flight this is not an issue because you're moving forward and the water streams away from this area.  On the ground in heavy rain you might get some water inside, though I usually don't.  Parking with flaps at 0° instead of 15° or more will probably allow the least amount of water to enter.  You could also if possible park with the nose pointed slightly uphill and that will help the water drain away from the problem area.

I found this still to be an issue in flight as I accumulated plenty of water in the baggage area. I was flying @ -6*

[AGLyme]

Anim, I can't dispute, I have been in "rain", but not drenching rain... no leaks yet.  

Here are the pics I promised of the tape scheme, top and bottom.  I took a pic of the Flaps "hole" that Tom pointed out in his earlier post, camera is aimed from the rear of the plane.  Have seen that same hole on many plane models that have "removable" wings.  I have not studied the Pipestrel in this regard.  I don't aim the wash hose near the hole.  My plane is built like every other LS unless minor changes were made in later models to shed rain better... who knows.  Anyway, take a look at a plane that doesn't leak and compare it to yours.

I forgot to take a photo of the pitot tube.  I included a pic of the whole plane with the two pitot tubes on each wing.  If you zoom in, you can see the pitot tubes).  It is different than any other I have ever seen.  It is a straight tube with holes at the front.  I am unsure as to it drainability in a rain storm.  If anyone knows, I'd appreciate an opinion.   

EDIT:  I searched some aircraft with removable wings using the term "water leak"... and it looks like water leakage is a common occurrence in rain.  Part of the program I guess.  Many "leak" around the windshield, turtle deck, etc... At least we don't have wing struts in the way for our trouble...

[Duski Don]

Just a minor aside whilst discussion includes use of Bolus tape.

The gliding club that operates at our airfield, and I, use standard white plastic insulation tape

In my experience it works just as well as expensive tape, lasts just as long if not longer and costs about 75 cents (Oz) a roll.

My sw spends all of it's ground time hangared so that probably assists with the cheap tapes long life

Greetings from down under

Don

[Jim Meade]

A guy named Michael Bowlus developed a stretchy polyester tape he named after himself, Bowlus.  It comes in several widths and sometimes the wider widths are especially useful as there don't seem to be many alternatives.

Some local glider pilots use white 3M electrical tape.  For some applications, as least, it appears to be entirely satisfactory and is considerably cheaper than Bowlus tape.  One doesn't usually see this tape wider than 3/4" or 1".

As an old farmer, I'm familiar with medicating horses and cattle using the bolus method.  It consists of either introducing medication via a syringe in a feeding type tube or by using a device that can inject a magnet or a pill about the size of your thumb into the animals alimentary canal sticking the balling gun, sometimes called a bolus gun, down the throat and then pressing on a plunger that injects (or projects) the pill.

Wings and Wheels has a discussion of the various ways to seal gaps.  Search for gap seal on their web site.  They don't say anything about medicating cattle.