AGLyme Posted September 22, 2020 Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 1 hour ago, FlyingMonkey said: I often call out "turning short final" That's really good advice... because I really am on short finals now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animosity2k Posted September 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 5 hours ago, Tip said: Hey Mike, Maybe bring the girlfriend back? I wish it was that easy, I'd give up my plane, the pilot license, everything to get her back. Flying has not been the same without her besides me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 I ran a not this last year. It came down to three things. 1) A CFI who did my BFR telling me to carry more power — FD says 10-20%, 2) watching my speed from downwind to short final (looking for -500 ft halfway through base), and 3) I had lost the habit of looking down the runway as I look to round out (flare). I have been very good at go around. So I have not had a many bad landings but still had frustrations with long landings. I figure the 10% based on max 5800 rpm = 580 added to 1800 = 2380. I use 2400. Works for me. Power off over the threshold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 In the pattern I usually go to idle power abeam the numbers, and by the time I get to short final I'm often still high and need a slip to get down. That's fine with me, I'd much rather be high than low and I enjoy slipping. I probably end up in a slip on 50% of my landings. I usually land at 30° flaps unless the winds are gusty or unpredictable, then I land at 15°. I also often fly my pattern lower than TPA; my home airport TPA is 1900ft, I usually start there but am already descending by midfield downwind, and am around 1800ft abeam the numbers. That just helps me not have to slip as hard to get down. As I mentioned, I fly a very tight pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 Remember that when giving advice on using idle power that the idle RPM can be as much as 300 RPM different between airplane, and even more. Many of these airplanes when delivered new from the factory had the idle speed set at 2000 RPM or higher, now some will set it as low as 1600. The difference in RPM has a pretty significant effect on glide in the pattern. When giving advice it might be more appropriate to give the RPM at idle in a 60kt glide. When gliding at 60 kts, I like to see around 2250 to 2300 RPM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tom Baker said: Remember that when giving advice on using idle power that the idle RPM can be as much as 300 RPM different between airplane, and even more. Many of these airplanes when delivered new from the factory had the idle speed set at 2000 RPM or higher, now some will set it as low as 1600. The difference in RPM has a pretty significant effect on glide in the pattern. When giving advice it might be more appropriate to give the RPM at idle in a 60kt glide. When gliding at 60 kts, I like to see around 2250 to 2300 RPM. Good point...I was not giving advice so much as just saying how I do it. Everybody has their own rhythm. For reference my idle RPM is set to the top of the yellow arc on the tach on the ground, ~1750-1800rpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 2 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said: In the pattern I usually go to idle power abeam the numbers, and by the time I get to short final I'm often still high and need a slip to get down. That is exactly what my CFI wants me to do for safety (engine out) reasons. Our airport is like a table on a rocky hill, surrounded by countless acres of forest and marsh. Not a good place for an engine out. I have been practicing what you outlined. Haven't been successful weaning myself off of the throttle yet, but I am getting there. PS: Our airport is infamous for Shear, so it is unusual for steady/no winds... there is almost always some burble going on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procharger Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 on the first bounce don't panic just pull way back on stick it will flare and settle that's what I do 1700 idle RPM is all you want or it will keep flying when trying to land anything idle over 2000 it to much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 The throttle and rpm do not control the speed. The stick controls the speed. The only difference from an idle landing and one at 2700 rpm is the stick is slightly back farther, but the landing and stall speed rem,ein the same. I can land at the same speed at 3K rpm just like at idle. This is in the basic flight manuals and I proved this with a challenge from some of our UK frinds many years ago. Bouncing most times is when someone wants to land the plane before it's ready. They want to unconsciously force it down before it's ready. Just hold it off and it will land when it's ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Roger Lee said: The throttle and rpm do not control the speed. The stick controls the speed. The only difference from an idle landing and one at 2700 rpm is the stick is slightly back farther, but the landing and stall speed rem,ein the same. I can land at the same speed at 3K rpm just like at idle. This is in the basic flight manuals and I proved this with a challenge from some of our UK frinds many years ago. Bouncing most times is when someone wants to land the plane before it's ready. They want to unconsciously force it down before it's ready. Just hold it off and it will land when it's ready. Sure you can and you can be a lot more precise that way but ... you are on the back side of the power and should it go out you will be landing right where you are .. dragging the plane with power , especially when low and slow and still a few hundred feet away from he threshold, always makes me feel uneasy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procharger Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 It takes a lot longer to get the plane to slow with high idle I like to see a landing on a short field with a idle set high. My speed is controlled by rpm I can't fly at 100 knots at 2700. When you are coming down hill to get in a short field and you at 2700 you are not going to get the plane to slow enough to land and stop. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 1 hour ago, procharger said: It takes a lot longer to get the plane to slow with high idle I like to see a landing on a short field with a idle set high. My speed is controlled by rpm I can't fly at 100 knots at 2700. When you are coming down hill to get in a short field and you at 2700 you are not going to get the plane to slow enough to land and stop. Just my opinion. The airplane can be flown from stall speed all the way to VNE with the engine off, so you can certainly fly 100 kts at 2700 RPM. You just may not be able to maintain level flight at 100 kts with 2700 RPM. Speed is controlled by the angle of attack of the airplane, and for any given configuration each degree of angle of attack will only allow one speed. This has nothing to do with power setting. Increased power on approach will flatten the approach, because you have more reserve power for the speed you are flying. With increased power it will take longer to transition to the slower speed while maintaining altitude. As you enter the landing flare it will take longer for the speed to bleed of do to the excess power, and if you don't reduce power after landing you will have to counter that excess power with braking. That little increase in power on landing will make the airplane act like a heavier airplane that has more kinetic energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 At 2700-3000 rpm I can land all day in 1K (300m UK) strip. I did it to show the UK guys many years ago. I did it 8 times. It's all about controlled approach and hitting your landing spot at the begining of the runway not half way down. Right is the basic flight instruction manual. The stick controls the speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Jefts Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 Another way of looking at it is the throttle is merely an elevator lever, up or down or level, at any given speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennM Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 Time to read Stick and Rudder by Langewiesche... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procharger Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 If I could maintain 100 knots at 2700 level flight I would be happy cut my fuel cost in half Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okent Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 Pitch for speed, power for descent. I spent a week at Stick and Rudder this July and the most important things were to set up your approach and apply the above. It's shocking how often I would be coming up short and want to pull back on the stick instead of adding power. Hard habit to break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 minute ago, okent said: Pitch for speed, power for descent. I spent a week at Stick and Rudder this July and the most important things were to set up your approach and apply the above. It's shocking how often I would be coming up short and want to pull back on the stick instead of adding power. Hard habit to break. In an old Cessna 150 that can put you in the weeds. You can get to the point you have full power, full flaps, in ground effect, and can't climb out of trouble. Fortunately the CT is not like that, it will climb out with full power and full flaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okent Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 Sorry Tom, I was only talking about landing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 I was too. Just pointing out that with some airplanes that can put you in a corner that you can't get out of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animosity2k Posted October 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 Just wanted to follow back up for anyone that wondered what happened to me. I went out with my CFI today (first time since I got my license , maybe 70 hours ago) and practiced two hours in the pattern landing at 15* flaps in calm winds. I was able to nail every landing. Instead of focusing on the speed once I came over the fence I just focused on watching down the runway and holding the plane off as long as I could, in many cases this resulted in the start of the stall alarm. I think I did something like 30+ landings and had zero issues. Needless to say my confidence is back, and I don't need to worry about my ex ruining my flying! Thanks for all the pointers everyone had, you were all dead on with my airspeed being way to high. I was trying to land the plane well before it was ready to quit flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Animosity2k said: I was able to nail every landing Finally some good news in 2020... well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animosity2k Posted October 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 10 hours ago, AGLyme said: Finally some good news in 2020... well done. Yeah, I'm not sure what happened to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyjr Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Animosity2k said: Yeah, I'm not sure what happened to me. You got your groove back, that's all that matters!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animosity2k Posted October 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 2 hours ago, johnnyjr said: You got your groove back, that's all that matters!!! Indeed it is! What I noticed the most was that I was constantly playing with the stick until I was on the ground when I was out w/ my CFI again. The last few times I flew without him it almost felt like I would flare, hold the stick where it was until I touched down. The other day I felt like I had to constantly feather the stick to make for a smooth touchdown and to allow me to burn all that excess energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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