Jump to content

Can't seem to land anymore....


Animosity2k

Recommended Posts

I ran a not this last year. It came down to three things. 1) A CFI who did my BFR telling me to carry more power — FD says 10-20%, 2) watching my speed from downwind to short final (looking for -500 ft halfway through base), and 3) I had lost the habit of looking down the runway as I look to round out (flare).

I have been very good at go around. So I have not had a many bad landings but still had frustrations with long landings. 
I figure the 10% based on max 5800 rpm = 580 added to 1800 = 2380. I use 2400. Works for me. Power off over the threshold.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the pattern I usually go to idle power abeam the numbers, and by the time I get to short final I'm often still high and need a slip to get down.  That's fine with me, I'd much rather be high than low and I enjoy slipping.  I probably end up in a slip on 50% of my landings.  I usually land at 30° flaps unless the winds are gusty or unpredictable, then I land at 15°.

I also often fly my pattern lower than TPA; my home airport TPA is 1900ft, I usually start there but am already descending by midfield downwind, and am around 1800ft abeam the numbers.  That just helps me not have to slip as hard to get down.  As I mentioned, I fly a very tight pattern.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Remember that when giving advice on using idle power that the idle RPM can be as much as 300 RPM different between airplane, and even more. Many of these airplanes when delivered new from the factory had the idle speed set at 2000 RPM or higher, now some will set it as low as 1600. The difference in RPM has a pretty significant effect on glide in the pattern. When giving advice it might be more appropriate to give the RPM at idle in a 60kt glide. When gliding at 60 kts, I like to see around 2250 to 2300 RPM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

Remember that when giving advice on using idle power that the idle RPM can be as much as 300 RPM different between airplane, and even more. Many of these airplanes when delivered new from the factory had the idle speed set at 2000 RPM or higher, now some will set it as low as 1600. The difference in RPM has a pretty significant effect on glide in the pattern. When giving advice it might be more appropriate to give the RPM at idle in a 60kt glide. When gliding at 60 kts, I like to see around 2250 to 2300 RPM.

Good point...I was not giving advice so much as just saying how I do it.  Everybody has their own rhythm.  

For reference my idle RPM is  set to the top of the yellow arc on the tach on the ground, ~1750-1800rpm 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said:

In the pattern I usually go to idle power abeam the numbers, and by the time I get to short final I'm often still high and need a slip to get down.

That is exactly what my CFI wants me to do for safety (engine out) reasons.  Our airport is like a table on a rocky hill, surrounded by countless acres of forest and marsh.  Not a good place for an engine out.  I have been practicing what you outlined.  Haven't been successful weaning myself off of the throttle yet, but I am getting there.

PS: Our airport is infamous for Shear, so it is unusual for steady/no winds... there is almost always some burble going on... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

The throttle and rpm do not control the speed. The stick controls the speed. The only difference from an idle landing and one at 2700 rpm is the stick is slightly back farther, but the landing and stall speed rem,ein the same. I can land at the same speed at 3K rpm just like at idle.  This is in the basic flight manuals and I proved this with a challenge from some of our UK frinds many years ago. Bouncing most times is when someone wants to land the plane before it's ready. They want to unconsciously force it down before it's ready. Just hold it off and it will land when it's ready.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Roger Lee said:

The throttle and rpm do not control the speed. The stick controls the speed. The only difference from an idle landing and one at 2700 rpm is the stick is slightly back farther, but the landing and stall speed rem,ein the same. I can land at the same speed at 3K rpm just like at idle.  This is in the basic flight manuals and I proved this with a challenge from some of our UK frinds many years ago. Bouncing most times is when someone wants to land the plane before it's ready. They want to unconsciously force it down before it's ready. Just hold it off and it will land when it's ready.

Sure you can and you can be a lot more precise that way but ... you are on the back side of the power and should it go out you will be landing right where you are .. dragging the plane with power , especially when low and slow and still a few hundred feet away from he threshold,  always makes me feel uneasy...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It takes a lot longer to get the plane to slow with high idle I like to see a landing on a short

field with a idle set high. My speed is controlled by rpm I can't fly at 100 knots at 2700. When

you are coming down hill to get in a short field and you at 2700 you are not going to get

the plane to slow enough to land and stop. Just my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, procharger said:

It takes a lot longer to get the plane to slow with high idle I like to see a landing on a short

field with a idle set high. My speed is controlled by rpm I can't fly at 100 knots at 2700. When

you are coming down hill to get in a short field and you at 2700 you are not going to get

the plane to slow enough to land and stop. Just my opinion.

The airplane can be flown from stall speed all the way to VNE with the engine off, so you can certainly fly 100 kts at 2700 RPM. You just may not be able to maintain level flight at 100 kts with 2700 RPM. Speed is controlled by the angle of attack of the airplane, and for any given configuration each degree of angle of attack will only allow one speed. This has nothing to do with power setting. Increased power on approach will flatten the approach, because you have more reserve power for the speed you are flying. With increased power it will take longer to transition to the slower speed while maintaining altitude. As you enter the landing flare it will take longer for the speed to bleed of do to the excess power, and if you don't reduce power after landing you will have to counter that excess power with braking. 

That little increase in power on landing will make the airplane act like a heavier airplane that has more kinetic energy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At 2700-3000 rpm I can land all day in 1K (300m UK) strip. I did it to show the UK guys many years ago. I did it 8 times. It's all about controlled approach and hitting your landing spot at the begining of the runway not half way down.

Right is the basic flight instruction manual. The stick controls the speed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pitch for speed, power for descent.

I spent a week at Stick and Rudder this July and the most important things were to set up your approach and apply the above.

It's shocking how often I would be coming up short and want to pull back on the stick instead of adding power.

Hard habit to break.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, okent said:

Pitch for speed, power for descent.

I spent a week at Stick and Rudder this July and the most important things were to set up your approach and apply the above.

It's shocking how often I would be coming up short and want to pull back on the stick instead of adding power.

Hard habit to break.

In an old Cessna 150 that can put you in the weeds. You can get to the point you have full power, full flaps, in ground effect, and can't climb out of trouble. Fortunately the CT is not like that, it will climb out with full power and full flaps. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just wanted to follow back up for anyone that wondered what happened to me. I went out with my CFI today (first time since I got my license , maybe 70 hours ago) and practiced two hours in the pattern landing at 15* flaps in calm winds. I was able to nail every landing. Instead of focusing on the speed once I came over the fence I just focused on watching down the runway and holding the plane off as long as I could, in many cases this resulted in the start of the stall alarm. I think I did something like 30+ landings and had zero issues. Needless to say my confidence is back, and I don't need to worry about my ex ruining my flying! Thanks for all the pointers everyone had, you were all dead on with my airspeed being way to high. I was trying to land the plane well before it was ready to quit flying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, johnnyjr said:

You got your groove back, that's all that matters!!!

Indeed it is! What I noticed the most was that I was constantly playing with the stick until I was on the ground when I was out w/ my CFI again. The last few times I flew without him it almost felt like I would flare, hold the stick where it was until I touched down. The other day I felt like I had to constantly feather the stick to make for a smooth touchdown and to allow me to burn all that excess energy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...