How Do You Announce "Experimental"?

[FlyingMonkey]

18 minutes ago, FastEddieB said:

Please do go on...

What might these restrictions be? I don’t think I’ve ever encountered any.

I'm with Eddie.

[Jim Meade]

FAA Order 8130.2J Appendix D, Table D, Nos 1, 37 and 55 may apply.

I agree, I have never had these restrictions applied to me, but I am subject to them if they are on my OL.

[FlyingMonkey]

2 hours ago, Jim Meade said:

FAA Order 8130.2J Appendix D, Table D, Nos 1, 37 and 55 may apply.

I agree, I have never had these restrictions applied to me, but I am subject to them if they are on my OL.

#55 states:

Flight over a densely populated area or in a congested airway is authorized for the purpose of takeoff or landing; or unless sufficient altitude is maintained to make a safe emergency landing in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to persons or property on the ground.

Though it's not explicit, that is basically the same for all aircraft.  If you are flying low over a congested area, lose power, and belly flop into a crowd of people, you're going to get charged with "careless and reckless" no matter what you are flying.  A congested area requires all aircraft to be 1000ft over highest obstacle within 2000ft, so in my book if you are flying legally by that standard you are covered.

It's kind of silly anyway, since "sufficient altitude" is entirely subjective, and can't be known until after the results of the forced landing are apparent.  You can be at 5000ft AGL, glide to a perfect landing on an empty soccer field, and have a bunch of kids run out in front of you in the last ten feet.  Were you in compliance?  No off-airport landing is completely without hazard to persons or property on the ground.

#37 has no applicability listed, so there is no way to comply other than to ignore it.

#1 deals with flights outside the USA, and the only country that allows that for LSA AFAIK is the Bahamas, and they allow experimentals.  It just says you need permission to fly to other countries.  Duh!

 

[FastEddieB]

2 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said:

#55 states:

Flight over a densely populated area or in a congested airway is authorized for the purpose of takeoff or landing; or unless sufficient altitude is maintained to make a safe emergency landing in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to persons or property on the ground.

Though it's not explicit, that is basically the same for all aircraft. 

 

 

 

Yep! Anywhere.

§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an  aircraft below the following altitudes: 

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

[Roger Lee]

You guys are making this How Do You Announce "Experimental"? awful complicated. LOL

[sandpiper]

3 minutes ago, Roger Lee said:

You guys are making this How Do You Announce "Experimental"? awful complicated. LOL

X2

[Jim Meade]

No kidding, Roger.  The AIM has been quoted several times and gives a very good format for the announcement.   Several experienced pilots have cited it as their preferred format.

I was in error in citing #37 - it is not applicable to 91.191(i).

#1 does apply to 91.191(i).  The fact that is is not used by most is moot.

#55 applies to 91.191 for "All Others" which is the category we are discussing, and says:

"Flight over a densely populated area or in a congested airway is authorized per § 91.319(c) only for the purpose of takeoff and landing. The area on the surface described by the term “only for the purpose of takeoff and landing” is the traffic pattern. For the purpose of this limitation, the term “only for the purpose of takeoff and landing” does not allow multiple traffic patterns for operations such as training or maintenance checks. This does not restrict a go around/rejected landing for safety reasons. When avoiding populated areas, aircraft speed and weight must be considered. The information in FAA Order 8900.1, Flight Standards Information Management System (FSIMS), regarding set-back distances from spectator areas for aviation events such as air shows or air races may assist in determining a suitable space to fly the aircraft. (55)"

91.319(c) says:

(c) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator in special operating limitations, no person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate over a densely populated area or in a congested airway. The Administrator may issue special operating limitations for particular aircraft to permit takeoffs and landings to be conducted over a densely populated area or in a congested airway, in accordance with terms and conditions specified in the authorization in the interest of safety in air commerce.

Since ATC can't see your OL, why would they assume the Administrator has authorized the in the OL the operations in (c)?

#55 alone is reason enough to not allow ATC to think one is experimental if it is not the case as it let's them assume authority they really don't have.

The real lesson out of this thread drift might be that anyone contemplating requesting or modifying OL is well advised to read the table carefully and seek expert advice in what one asks for or tries to avoid.  I hope we can all agree on that.

[Isham]

2 hours ago, Roger Lee said:

You guys are making this How Do You Announce "Experimental"? awful complicated. LOL

X-ray November 3