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It won't be announced 'til tomorrow... but here's a picture tonite! The Flight Design C4

FDC4.JPG

C4_WEb.jpg

 

tim

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There's no flying prototype, so the specs could change, but...

$308,000. (new info says 250K)

Shipping in 2013

160 kts max cruise

MTOW 2,640

Lycoming io-360, (and a diesel/jet-a),

70 gallon tank

Garmin G1000

Parachute standard

1200 nm range, at 65% power (1,700 for diesel)

10 hours at 55% power (13.5 for diesel)

See the spec sheet from FD-USA

See the AOPA article

 

 

hmmmm... price of a 172, performance of 182, wider cabin... better range.... looks interesting.

 

tim

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Now Eric, this looks pretty cool!!! I always wanted a Garmin suite in a FD airframe. This is one way of getting it. Looks a little more efficient than even my Diamond 40 I used to fly plus a wing that will fit in a standard hangar.

 

I'm impressed.

 

John

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Wunder if retracts would be praticable and even more slick?

Is it metal?

Usefull load with full and half gas?

182 burns ~12 per hour

IO360 w/CSP 9-11 per hour and, I think no auto-gas

heavier 182 ride helps in lite turbulence

Cost of ADs for first 5-10 years ?

Big expensive through spar, like the Cessna Cardinal-watch out for undetectable corrosion up there over time.

To bad Cessna doesn't bring back the Cardinal...not as fast but maybe could be slicked up a little. Not sure what happened there, maybe too expensive to produce at the time.

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Wunder if retracts would be praticable and even more slick?

Is it metal?

Usefull load with full and half gas?

182 burns ~12 per hour

IO360 w/CSP 9-11 per hour and, I think no auto-gas

heavier 182 ride helps in lite turbulence

Cost of ADs for first 5-10 years ?

Big expensive through spar, like the Cessna Cardinal-watch out for undetectable corrosion up there over time.

To bad Cessna doesn't bring back the Cardinal...not as fast but maybe could be slicked up a little. Not sure what happened there, maybe too expensive to produce at the time.

 

Like the Cirrus it's not worth the extra weight and complexity of retracts when you can put the farings on and reduce the drag to minimal anyway.

 

It's all composite planned right now so corrosion should not be a factor at all.

 

Useful load looks to be about 1320lbs of people bags and gas, I'm sure it will vary with what options are chosen for avionics.

 

Fuel load is shown right now at 70gals so even with full tanks that leaves a 900lbs of people and bags when using Avgas. can't do that in a SR-20 or a C172!

 

Very exciting prospects, I know it's early in the process but I have the utmost confidence in Flight Design being able to meet their goals!

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Specs include a desire to use MoGas and AVGas... and I'm sure whatever they come up with replace 100LL.

That diesel/Jet-A engine sounds sweet, too.

Tim

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Will it be stick or yolk or side stick or...

 

How about toe brakes?

 

Have that automated engine control system, probably....Maybe they'll throw in the fixes for the first ADs....Or, other than the established engine which probably has some ADs, is it possible they have it down where few airframe ADs come out?

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My 182 turbo is a good 165 kt airplane but on 17.4 gph, not 13gph. Useful load of my specific plane is 994lbs, then fuel, people and bags. If they can get anywhere near their predictions, this plane will be awesome. However, there will be one competitor and that is the Diamond DA40. Same speed, similar realistic payload, fuel burn, construction and probable cabin room at nearly the same price. The only problem I had with my Diamond was cabin size and wingspan required a twin-sized hangar. This C4 blows away a 172 and, frankly, the 182 at their "dream specs". My CTLS payload, speed and cabin room was phenomenal for the size of the plane and I'm sure they're going to get close to their specs with this one...

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Will it be stick or yolk or side stick or...

 

How about toe brakes?

 

Have that automated engine control system, probably....Maybe they'll throw in the fixes for the first ADs....Or, other than the established engine which probably has some ADs, is it possible they have it down where few airframe ADs come out?

 

It might be a bit early for those details, but Flight Design is still soliciting pilots design requests via the C4 survey. Check it out.

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EAA is reporting that FD took orders/deposits for 13 units on the first day... 29 total during the show

 

Tim

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Little doors in the wheel pants, like Cessna 172s have, would be a welcome addition. And the same fuel management LR OFF Both. Hopefully the Carry Through Spar won't be so intrusive.

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I really have to say "who cares" about the 4 seat CT. What attracted me to LSA was the price vs "regular" airplanes. At that price, it's nothing special. If I'm going to dream about planes I can't afford, the Piaggio P.180 Avanti and Concorde are both a heck of a lot cooler. :D

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crs123,

 

I don't "care" about the 4 seat either, at least not directly. What I do care about is the health and longevity of Flight Design. Hopefully, this means the company is healthy and will be around for a long time. Hopefully.

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I'll chime in and say WOW can't wait to trade WD in on one. Course I'll want to check it out and fly it and such. This looks like just the ticket foe me, fast with lots of useful load, etc.

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Regarding the Long Haul when compared to a 172...Specifically will composite stand the test of time 30-40+ years like aluminum has?

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old argument... unknown answers. But what materials are being used in all the new military and passenger jets? I'm not sure that aluminum is that great. I've seen plenty of corroded aluminum and, well, we've heard a lot about cracks too. I've touched too many pieces of apparently good aluminum, only to have it crumble in my hands.

 

 

In the past all aircraft were manufactured with a given life... as they exceeded that life, the lifetime was extended. I think most of the composites are in that stage... of being extended. I understand the Diamonds initially had a number of hours assigned to their lifetime, which has been extended to "unlimited". I've read that the Cirrus has had their "lifetime" extended several times... up to something like 12,000 hours now.

 

I've been pretty impressed when looking at how well composite aircraft have protected their occupants in survivable crashes. The seem to absorb a great deal of energy.

 

I personally get creeped-out looking at most 40-50-60 year-old airplanes.... kinda like looking at the plumbing in an old house. Of course, the nicely restored and maintained ones are a different thing entirely. It's one thing to have a museum piece, and something else to have a practical flying machine. I'll take a modern machine... but then I'm smitten by the new tech.

 

 

PS... my brother works for a company that makes it's living producing parts for the long-out-of-production airplane fleets. They buy the rights to produce the parts, or knock them off, and keep the old fleets in the skies... mostly in 3rd world countries. Creeps me out.

 

Just my 2cents

Tim

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From the FD-Germany web page...

2011-05-05

FLIGHT DESIGN POSITIONS C4 FOR GLOBAL MARKET

Competitive Pricing in US Dollars and Euros Plus True 4-Seat Performance

 

C4_ed.jpgLeinfelden-Echterdingen, GERMANY / 4 May 2011 — After the recent successful launch of their new four seat C4, Flight Design identified how their fresh all carbon speedster will soundly alter the market by combining true four adult cabin room and performance with a price point offering exceptional value a winning combination simply not available in any other aircraft today.

 

Unlike most new general aviation designs of recent decades, Flight Design’s C4 comes to market with a global view. Customers from throughout the world will be able to choose from two engine options to best suit fuel availability and cost in their areas — a traditional aviation engine capable of running on auto fuel, or a turbo diesel engine economically operating on widely available Jet A fuel. And, as the world trades in multiple currencies, C4 is strategically priced both in European Union euros and U.S. dollars, reflecting market-based pricing in these two primary selling areas for the new aircraft.

 

The company’s C4 received a rousing welcome when it was introduced last month at Aero 2011 in Friedrichshafen, Germany. “We are offering ground-breaking value for a very well-equipped C4, at the time of delivery in 2013, at a target price of US $250,000 for the American market and €220.000 for Europe and the rest of the world outside the U.S.,” explained John Doman, Director of Business Development, Global Sales & Marketing for Flight Design.

 

Flight Design plans to announce their engine and avionics selections for the C4 as suppliers are confirmed. “During Aero, meetings were held with prospective suppliers of engines, avionics, propellers and other components for the C4, with final selection of our supply partners to be announced by EAA Air Venture Oshkosh in July of 2011,” Doman stated. More than 30 C4 orders were taken at the Aero event as part of the special “Early Bird” C4 incentive order program. New “Early Bird” orders and deposits are now being accepted online and via credit card atwww.flightdesignusa.com or via Flight Design’s worldwide network of dealers and soon also directly at www.flightdesign.com

 

Subject to flight test confirmation C4 design specifications are impressive: Employing high-tech materials like carbon fiber, useful load is 600 kilograms (1,320 pounds) or 50% of maximum take-off weight of 1.200 kilograms (2,640 pounds); max speed is projected at 160 knots (184 mph) @ 6,000 feet MSL. Range is 1,200 nautical miles with the avgas powerplant at 65% power and 1,700 nautical miles with the diesel engine at 55% power. Fuel tanks hold 265 liters (70 U.S. gallons).

 

Another plus to the new design comes in cockpit dimensions. A spacious cabin goes beyond many general aviation aircraft with: 1,32 meters (52 inches) of cabin width in front or 1,20 meters (47 inches) for rear seat occupants; both numbers are significantly wider than most GA aircraft on the market today. “We have had people taller than 2 meters (6 feet, 7 inches) in the back seat," observed Doman.

 

“We want to offer the market a modern technology, price-efficient aircraft that performs well, is comfortable for longer flights, and which operates with less fuel expense, ” explained Matthias Betsch, CEO of Flight Design. “Our ongoing customer surveying shows us that price tops the demand list from customers and we believe our prices can result in sales volumes of 200 to 500 aircraft per year.” To participate in the online survey regarding design features of C4, go towww.flightdesign.com/C4Survey. All participants will be entered into a drawing for a Garmin Aera 500 GPS as a grand prize.

 

Flight Design plans to certify the C4 to several international standards ensuring compliance with both EASA and FAA regulations. “At the same time we intend to expand our capability in global service and support, further enhancing our leadership in these areas,” said Betsch. The German company has already passed several examinations including a LAMA audit, ISO audit, and a review by TÜV. Recently the company gained EASA Design Organization Approval that permits Flight Design to progress on their own schedule with oversight monitoring from EASA, eliminating costly and time-consuming delays.

 

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Video from AirVenture/Oshkosh 2011

Tim

 

P.S.- at the end of AirVenture/OshKosh 2011, FD reported a total of 60+ C4's on order (deposits paid), with many new orders taken at the show. The "early-bird" pricing will be available until 100 aircraft are ordered.

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