Skunkworks85 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 part question. 1.What is the lever for in between the seats? Prop? 2. Could this aircraft be brought into the us? And if so what could it be registered as? I know it would not qualify for LSA, could it be brought in as experimental? https://www.barnstormers.com/classified-1626017-CTSW-2007.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 A local flight school bought a Diamond and brought it into the US from Canada. Took six months of bureaucratic BS. IIRC, they basically had to have it inspected and re-certified as meeting US FAA standards. They said they would never buy another Canadian airplane again. Even if you get a good deal, the time and cost negates it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassStripFlyBoy Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Living on the boarder the local community has a few stories on this topic, I don't know of many direct first hand but one account and yes it was a long drawn out ordeal - and that was a certified airplane. About 5 years ago I purchased a Rans project in Ontario. It was a registered / flying airplane that had no engine on it. Called CBP to discuss purchase and was informed so long as it is not a registered / complete airplane with engine, I can freely bring "parts" across boarder with bill of sale. So closed the sale, removed C#, loaded everything on a trailer and drove it home, certainly got questioned at crossing but had the answer and bill of sale, maybe 5 min discussion with "I need to call my mgr to confirm this", yup good to go. My plan on the Rans was a nut & bolt rebuild, and new registration treating it as I purchased parts instead of a factory kit. After a couple years of picking away at rebuild a guy with a wrecked one saw my fuse which was sanded to bare metal and repainted, and compared to price from Rans was real happy to buy the project off me. That was small bit of the funds for my SW later that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 11 hours ago, Skunkworks85 said: 2 part question. 1.What is the lever for in between the seats? Prop? 2. Could this aircraft be brought into the us? And if so what could it be registered as? I know it would not qualify for LSA, could it be brought in as experimental 1.... Manual/hydraulic propeller ajustment ( Kaspar prop ) http://www.kasparaero.cz/en/eur/product/54/lever_of_hydraulic_control_of_propeller.html 2.... the CTSW in Canada is registered as an AULA [ Advanced Ultra LIght Aeroplane ) , This category is unique to Canada [ in-flight prop permitted, no speed limit, 1232 lbs max , self maintenance, ...) . going from one category to another is very unusual.. so, yes, it can be brought to US, but not be registered. unless, you work with FDUSA to have it LSA [ ? ? ? ? ? ] otherwise I doubt.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 From a regulatory stand point it can not be issued a airworthiness certificate in the light sport category since it has previously had an airworthiness certificate, even in another country. The only airworthiness certificate option that I am aware of would be experimental exhibition. That would limit operations somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, Tom Baker said: From a regulatory stand point it can not be issued a airworthiness certificate in the light sport category since it has previously had an airworthiness certificate, even in another country. The only airworthiness certificate option that I am aware of would be experimental exhibition. That would limit operations somewhat. Sounds right. I think the problems come in (at least for the flight school I mentioned) with documenting and proving that the airplane meets the Part 23 or SLSA requirements. In the case of the Diamond, they basically had to get a DAR out to go over the airplane with a fine-tooth comb to make sure it was factory correct and met all FAA requirements. SLSA not used in flight training might not be as rigorous, but I'd use caution just to avoid a nightmare. It would be wise to get complete logs and and ask the local FSDO what would be required. I work hard to avoid drama in my life, others' tolerance for bureaucratic shenanigans might be different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Standard category are different. They can be moved from country to country. It just requires mountains of paperwork to bring them into the US. For LSA the regulations simple don't permit it if the aircraft has ever had an airworthiness certificate issued to it before, in any country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Tom Baker said: Standard category are different. They can be moved from country to country. It just requires mountains of paperwork to bring them into the US. For LSA the regulations simple don't permit it if the aircraft has ever had an airworthiness certificate issued to it before, in any country. Oh, so just "no can do" to bring an LSA into the US from Canada? Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Here are the specifics of the two regulations covering airworthiness certificates for SLSA and ELSA. §21.190 Issue of a special airworthiness certificate for a light-sport category aircraft. (b) Eligibility. To be eligible for a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category: (2) The aircraft must not have been previously issued a standard, primary, restricted, limited, or provisional airworthiness certificate, or an equivalent airworthiness certificate issued by a foreign civil aviation authority. §21.191 Experimental certificates. (i) Operating light-sport aircraft. Operating a light-sport aircraft that— (1) Has not been issued a U.S. or foreign airworthiness certificate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skunkworks85 Posted February 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Tom, is it possible for a person to disassemble the aircraft, "Make major modifications", reassemble and call that a 51% build and then registered as amature Experimental? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 31 minutes ago, Skunkworks85 said: Tom, is it possible for a person to disassemble the aircraft, "Make major modifications", reassemble and call that a 51% build and then registered as amature Experimental? No, because it's not 51% amateur built. It was built in a factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Still not as hard as getting a pistol permit in Connecticut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said: Oh, so just "no can do" to bring an LSA into the US from Canada? Interesting. yes, you can, but it has to be new unregistered..if you find one as LSA don't exist in Canada. or maybe a PUMA https://www.puma-aircraft.com/work/puma-aircraft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skunkworks85 Posted February 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, FlyingMonkey said: No, because it's not 51% amateur built. It was built in a factory. Hypothetical question then, what if you throw away the wings/stabilator and build new ones? I wish flight design would sell a kit, I would love to use this airframe with a CS prop and maybe a 914. And make it IFR There was a pipistrel virus on barnstormers that had the cs prop and ifr capable i was eyeing up. That is the next best option IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassStripFlyBoy Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Skunkworks85 said: Hypothetical question then, what if you throw away the wings/stabilator and build new ones? I'm thinking so, providing the FAA / local FSDO / DAR agrees to your plan. These "fringe" operations are heavily dependent on what someone will accept prior to you being done. Such as people taking a C172 and converting over to experimental, not an everyday deal but can happen. Or those who take a Cub fuse, some old Maule wings, and an auto conversion for power plant then call it a new experimental build. It would be pure experimental though, and you could apply for repairman cert to maintain it. Would not be an E-LSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said: No, because it's not 51% amateur built. It was built in a factory. How can you legally tell if you manufactured a plane from some external plans , part by part or if put it together from existing parts ( which I first sourced from another plane ) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 11, 2021 Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Warmi said: How can you legally tell if you manufactured a plane from some external plans , part by part or if put it together from existing parts ( which I first sourced from another plane ) ? Every amateur built airplane has to have a build log documenting the build process. The DAR examines the log before you get the airworthiness certificate. Every part does not need to be fabricated, but you have to show the airplane was mostly (51%) built by amateurs for recreational and educational purposes. Most quickbuild kits these days are just bolting parts together. I did a lot of fabrication when I was building my Sonex, it's a lot of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted February 11, 2021 Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 1 hour ago, FlyingMonkey said: Every amateur built airplane has to have a build log documenting the build process. The DAR examines the log before you get the airworthiness certificate. Every part does not need to be fabricated, but you have to show the airplane was mostly (51%) built by amateurs for recreational and educational purposes. Most quickbuild kits these days are just bolting parts together. I did a lot of fabrication when I was building my Sonex, it's a lot of work. But my point is ....since I am free to manufacture parts anyway I want ( either source them from a toolkit manufacturer or I just fabricate them myself - I can for instance buy plans from Zenith and work off of their plans directly ) what prevents me from disassembling an existing plane , say CTSW, and then reassembling as amateur build - I mean I get to decide how to manufacture my parts so who is to say what is correct way of doing that .. I can claim that every part on that CTSW was manufactured by me and how can they prove otherwise ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 11, 2021 Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 In the certified world the FAA has cracked down on movement of once type certified aircraft to the amature built category. If the airplane can be tracked to a previously certified airframe I suspect it will be no dice. They are also cracking down on airplanes being built around paperwork, pieced together out of parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skunkworks85 Posted February 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 There is some shady things going on with the pipistrels, This on on Barnsotromers: Constant Speed prop But checking the faa aircraft registry, It shows Light sport kit built certificate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted February 11, 2021 Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 Saying "some shady things going on with the Pipistrels" is a pretty broad and rather serious observation. Do mean all or most Pipistrrels? Or do you mean this one instance of an inconsistent description? I'd imagine Pipistrel dealers and owners might take exception to what seems to be a blanket negative statement without more than one example cited as proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Bozo Posted February 11, 2021 Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 I just listed my 2006 Flight Design on Barnstormers. Just search for 2006 CTSW and you will see it. Nice plane, I am only selling because I was able to get my medical back and so I bought a Cessna 182 like the one I had before and do not have any more need for the CT. It is in Cottonwood, AZ, delivery could be arranged Larry 408-821-6902 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skunkworks85 Posted February 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Jim Meade said: Saying "some shady things going on with the Pipistrels" is a pretty broad and rather serious observation. Do mean all or most Pipistrrels? Or do you mean this one instance of an inconsistent description? I'd imagine Pipistrel dealers and owners might take exception to what seems to be a blanket negative statement without more than one example cited as proof. The other 2 are registered as racing exhibition. But show up in the lsa search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 The ad you cited is obviously inconsistent. I didn't see the others you mentioned in a 15 minute search of Barnstormer, so I gave up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 When I was plane shopping, Pipistrel was on my list. I was excited to try one out. Went to SunnFun and went directly to the pipistrel area. I asked the nice man there if I could sit in it... I was in it for a minute and I couldn’t believe how close the wing box was to my head. And I thought the visibility over the cowl was tough too. Great concept and I thought their marketing approach at the time was positive (2018). not for me however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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