Rotax parts price increases

[Ed Cesnalis]

6 years ago I got  into the Spray Foam Insulation business with Chinese equipment instead of the American stuff that is the industry standard.  The equipment was a good choice in this case.

[AGLyme]

Mad, 

I agree with you 100%... but for one thing about China. Manufacturing Skills have evolved unbelievably quickly to the point of no return for the western economies.  And, the robot sellers are discounting their machines heavily to secure a foothold for their brands.  With a steep rise in labor costs, Chinese manufacturers have invested significantly in labor-less manufacturing.  In sum, quality on high end products is very good.  

I am familiar with their aerospace side, I’ve spent scads of time there.  Sadly for us here in the west, aero build quality is getting better and better.

So, JM may have a point that it will work well at a lower upfront cost.  However I side with Andy on this one on the simple fact that after getting hit by the proverbial bus, JM’s heirs would not be able to sell the plane without a deep discount. Therefore paying for it twice.  It’s bad enough that we Rotaxers have to defend the engine at every GA lunch, imagine the problems getting A&P help.  Nightmare.

[ODowneyEng]

59 minutes ago, AGLyme said:

Mad, 

I agree with you 100%... but for one thing about China. Manufacturing Skills have evolved unbelievably quickly to the point of no return for the western economies.  And, the robot sellers are discounting their machines heavily to secure a foothold for their brands.  With a steep rise in labor costs, Chinese manufacturers have invested significantly in labor-less manufacturing.  In sum, quality on high end products is very good.  

I am familiar with their aerospace side, I’ve spent scads of time there.  Sadly for us here in the west, aero build quality is getting better and better.

So, JM may have a point that it will work well at a lower upfront cost.  However I side with Andy on this one on the simple fact that after getting hit by the proverbial bus, JM’s heirs would not be able to sell the plane without a deep discount. Therefore paying for it twice.  It’s bad enough that we Rotaxers have to defend the engine at every GA lunch, imagine the problems getting A&P help.  Nightmare.

This is just my experience. I occasionally get calls from Rotax owners wanting conditional inspections. It seems to be an issue finding an A&P willing to take them on. A few colleagues in the business, tell me it is not worth the effort to take required Rotax courses and Recurring training for the smaller numbers. We keep busy with Lycomming and Continentals. At FRG on Long Island we have 238 single engine aircraft based and many A&Ps. Don’t break down here with a Rotax engine or you may have to trailer it out. Would not be the first time. I love the engine. Just too bad for expansion of Rotax use. 

[Doug G.]

Sorry I am slow to catch up on this discussion. A few years back I saw a story about the development of a capacitor that was made from carbon nanotubes. It was supposed to have more capacity, much lighter, and a much faster charge rate than batteries. 
If that, or something similar would pan out it would be a game changer across the board. Jus don’t put a screwdriver across those terminals!

[Towner]

Our government has it all figured out. As an example, look at California's efficient, 200 mph bullet train that will travel from LA to the bay area! Oh wait, it's waaay over budget, so now it's just Sacramento to Bakersfield. It's going right through our town. I now know that it has been trimmed to Shafter to Modesto for a 4 year test program. During that test period, it will run at a top speed of 74 mph. The amtrak runs at 72 mph. I'm pretty sure it will never run a mile and still cost more than the initial budget for LA to the bay! That's our government at work!

Thanks to California wanting me to "Go Green", they gave me enough rebates to allow me to lease a brand new fully electric car for only $39 a month! We got two! We had two previous all electric cars that leased for $18 a month! I don't care about electric, but that's about as close to free as I can get for a car! Maybe we can get rebates on electric airplanes too and get em for free!

[Warmi]

Whoa .. IL is even more broke than CA.I wonder what they spend our money on since we don’t even get “free” car coupons or bullet trains.

[Tom Baker]

2 hours ago, Warmi said:

Whoa .. IL is even more broke than CA.I wonder what they spend our money on since we don’t even get “free” car coupons or bullet trains.

Lining politicians pockets.

[Anticept]

Back on topic: one reason for price increases everywhere is the obscene shipping costs.

A company I am working for that imports furniture has seen cost of shipping increase multiple fold over. 340,000 for 18 containers...

[cdarza]

NOT a Rotax part and didnt wanna start a new thread - but WOW   !!  Swift EGT probe was $25 back in 2018 and now  2021  $56 !!!! dang

 

 

[Madhatter]

 Some parts can be much cheaper , higher quality and made in USA

The entire exhaust system

Coming soon

[FlyingMonkey]

Hatter, do you have a ballpark of what that exhaust system will cost?  I know you probably don't have an exact number yet.  It looks great.

[Madhatter]

Not established yet. My guess is at least half of what FD will charge. Right now it would only apply to ELSA. FD will be looking at it for SLSA but no time frame on it. It is made from 321 stainless and the heat muffler spacer rings are heavier and fully welded to eliminate the cracking issues on the original FD muffler. The tail pipe is a little longer to minimize exhaust straining however can be shortened if needed. 

[Anticept]

What characteristics made you choose 321 over 329?

[Madhatter]

Standard stainless material used in almost all aircraft exhaust systems. 

[Anticept]

Right, the reason I asked is the barrel part is 329. Wasn't sure if you chose for a specific reason.

[Madhatter]

321 stainless will withstand continuous 1500 degrees F without oxidation and still maintain it's structural strength. It's used for military and civilian exhaust applications in the aerospace industry. 

[BravoFoxtrot]

Here is an article on using SS for exhaust systems:

Stainless Steels for Exhaust Systems - Comparing 304/321 and More | Technology and more | Burns Stainless Articles blog

Looks like 321 is the best choice.

[Jacques]

yep...and that's what these guys use as well :   http://www.rotax912exhaust.com/en/

Manhatter, what happened to your 4 to 1 exhaust mod ?   didn't work ?  just curious

thanks for the link BravoFoxtrot...very informative

[Anticept]

11 hours ago, Madhatter said:

321 stainless will withstand continuous 1500 degrees F without oxidation and still maintain it's structural strength. It's used for military and civilian exhaust applications in the aerospace industry. 

The elbows are 321. Anyways doesn't matter, I'm not a metallurgist

[Madhatter]

4 hours ago, Jacques said:

yep...and that's what these guys use as well :   http://www.rotax912exhaust.com/en/

Manhatter, what happened to your 4 to 1 exhaust mod ?   didn't work ?  just curious

thanks for the link BravoFoxtrot...very informative

4 in 1 exhaust decibel level is too high. Tried multiple designs,  the exhaust pipes need to have a minimum length to reduce the noise level and scavenge the pulses.  The short engine compartment did not make it practical.

 

[Madhatter]

2 hours ago, Anticept said:

The elbows are 321. Anyways doesn't matter, I'm not a metallurgist

The original reason for changing the exhaust was cost and a few structural changes. Without doing a metal analysis you couldn't verify the original metal type. But that is irrelevant since 321 is the only practical way to go.

[Anticept]

I double checked the install manual. Got a couple things mixed up. There is no 329, its 309.

321 is the manifold.

Elbows are 309.

Ball joints and tailpipe are 304.

Anyways none of this is meant to argue with you, rather I just wanted to know why you chose what you chose. I was looking for specific properties of the materials!

I did look up 321 stainless and was curious about the choice since 1500 degrees seemed too low. 309 retains its properties in cyclical temperature conditions up to 1850 degrees, which makes more sense with how hot the exhaust gas gets, so using that right at the valve exhaust makes sense.

[Madhatter]

There is more to this than just temperature. 321 is the standard in aviation, both civilian and military. There is no point in trying to reinvent something that has been successful for almost the entire span of aviation . Besides, the fabrication shops have a difficult time getting 321 in 1 1/4 inch let alone something that is not even available and are not going to change. They are not going to assume the liability even for experimental.

 

[Anticept]

Gotta use what you can find!