colin_eyres Posted June 11, 2022 Report Share Posted June 11, 2022 Hi, has anybody got any experience of replacing the master cylinder seals on a 2007 CTSW? could anybody supply a exploded view of the internals of the master cylinder, also do you think there would be any exchange units available? if not how much would a new unit be? would there be a seals service kit available? if possible it would be helpful if the dimensions of the seals could also be given as I can imagine in the UK that to obtain a new/exchange will be impossible and maybe a second hand unit off a scrapped aircraft could be nearly as bad as our leaking unit.finally would the seals have to be made of a special material to resist the effects of the mineral oil used on the braking system.many thanks in anticipation guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassStripFlyBoy Posted June 11, 2022 Report Share Posted June 11, 2022 Assuming you have the original (gold) wheels, these are from Marc Ingenuity - (marc-ingegno.it) I didn't dig too deep into this website but will point you this direction. I have a spare set I acquired but not exactly looking to part with them, if you're in a major bind I'd consider helping out. I think if I was facing a replacement I'd upgrade to Matco brand and scrap the Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted June 11, 2022 Report Share Posted June 11, 2022 Master cylinders are located in this category: https://www.marc-ingegno.it/pompe-freno It is probably this one: https://www.marc-ingegno.it/pompe-freno/pompe-freno-pistone-14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted June 12, 2022 Report Share Posted June 12, 2022 Matco Brake in the US sells a new, reasonably priced replacement for the original CTsw master cylinder. No need to rebuild the Marc Ingegno unit. Several owners on this site have installed the Matco MC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 12, 2022 Report Share Posted June 12, 2022 I would definitely replace the Marc master cyl. With a Matco. It puts out more pressure and volume. It would be cheaper and easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BravoFoxtrot Posted June 12, 2022 Report Share Posted June 12, 2022 Any issues when using the Matco master cylinder with Marc brakes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 No issues. This was the first thing I did when we started switching from the Marc’s. The Matco wheels and brakes are far better than the Marc’s too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 As an interesting point Flight Design has switched back to Marc wheels and brakes, at least for the Super airplanes. I just performed the condition inspection on a one year old Super Sport with Marc wheels and brakes. There are several other interesting changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 The marc wheels are lighter and probably cheaper. If I ordered one, I would order it with matcos though. Upside to marc wheels: they go great with the smaller tires. It's the bigger tires (6.00-6) that I think stress the beads too much when inflated. Had four wheels come apart at the wheel beads with those tires and wheel combinations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 With the issues with the Marc’s before I can’t believe they went back. Marc’s have never been as good as the Matco’s and the Marc’s parts are harder to come by, ask any technical questions and more expensive. Seems like a step backward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 When I was at Oshkosh about 5 years ago I dropped by the Matco tent and talked about brakes with them. Roger's name came up and they referred to him with considerable enthusiasm. My take is that Roger has extensive experience with Matco brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 On 6/12/2022 at 12:16 AM, FredG said: Matco Brake in the US sells a new, reasonably priced replacement for the original CTsw master cylinder. No need to rebuild the Marc Ingegno unit. Several owners on this site have installed the Matco MC. I did this years ago. At the time I priced it out the Marc MC was like $400 and the Matco was like $70. The Matco was much higher quality too and has been going strong for 7 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 And matco.cylinders have supporting documentation to service them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towner Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 Tom, Maybe not for this post, but I’d be curious to hear about the other changes you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BravoFoxtrot Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 5 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said: I did this years ago. At the time I priced it out the Marc MC was like $400 and the Matco was like $70. The Matco was much higher quality too and has been going strong for 7 years. FYI, the current price of the Matco master cylinder MCMC-4CT is $204.74. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 8 hours ago, Roger Lee said: With the issues with the Marc’s before I can’t believe they went back. Marc’s have never been as good as the Matco’s and the Marc’s parts are harder to come by, ask any technical questions and more expensive. Seems like a step backward. I think it is about the weight. This new airplane had almost 600 pounds useful load, kind of like the old days with the early SW's. By the way it is registered as a CTSW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 14 hours ago, BravoFoxtrot said: FYI, the current price of the Matco master cylinder MCMC-4CT is $204.74. Yay inflation! No telling what the Marc costs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 12 hours ago, Tom Baker said: I think it is about the weight. This new airplane had almost 600 pounds useful load, kind of like the old days with the early SW's. By the way it is registered as a CTSW. IMO the Matcos are worth the extra couple of pounds. But I do understand if you think that way eventually you end up with a porky airplane. The CT Super is a super cool airplane, if I was going to buy something new or slightly used that's where I'd look. IMO utility in the LSA world is all about useful load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin_eyres Posted June 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2022 Hi guys,just for your infomation I've managed to track down a seal service kit for the Marc Ingregno master cylinder from Airmasters in the UK. and I'm going to attempt the seal change over this coming saturday and I will keep you up to speed on how I fare. many thanks for everybodys input on the matter and if this kit dosn't solve my problem then I will certainly look into changing over to Matco. if anybody else is interested in the size of the Marc Ingregno seals they are: 17 x 14 x 1.8 14.5 x 11 x1.8 12.5 x 9 1.8 8 x 4.5 x1.8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 16, 2022 Report Share Posted June 16, 2022 How much is the kit plus shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin_eyres Posted June 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 Hi Roger,as mentioned in my last post the seals were obtained from Airmasters in the UK. I dont know how long he'd had the seals in his stock but he implied that he couldn't supply a new or exchange unit for me.inluding the post it was just under £20 which I thought was'nt too bad for OEM parts. it was a 2 man job today to get the master cylinder out from the centre tunnel and we were surprised that 3 of the 4 seals were ok. the smallest one that was attached to the end of the piston rod was a different story. the aircraft has now had the check valve, parking brake valve and finally the re furb of the master cylinder.both the check valve and the master cylinder seals have suffered major damage .but there again the aircraft has approx 2400hours on the airframe with the braking problems starting about 50 hours prior,and this is the first time we've had any problems with the operation of the brakes fingers are now crossed!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 None of those o-rings are any good. They all have bits and pieces fraying. If an o-ring isn't pristine like you took it out of the package, then it's bad, hands down replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tevbax Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 Is that Matco Master a direct replacement for the Marc? Plane is in for Annual Inspect, and we either need a master or a bleed. (or both). Would like to give my MX guy a heads up. I talked with @Roger Lee about this several months back to also address a toe issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 It's a drop in replacement, but if you're S-LSA, matco stuff technically needs an MRA. I installed the master cylinder in addition to the wheels on mine, never looked back, hands down better in nearly every way. Only issue is that FD decided *against* the 1 inch spacer for the 6.00-6 tires which would have made it much easier than having to use trigger clamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 Matco brakes and parts are already approved. I got them when I did the first Matco change on my plane. Yes the master cylinder is just s drop in replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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