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Instrument training for Sport pilots


coppercity

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If your working on your Sport Pilot Certificate in a CT you should receive some instruction on controlling the aircraft soley by reference to instruments prior to your solo cross country.

 

Regulation 61.93 requires 12 items to be completed as part of cross country training, here is number twelve.

 

 

(12) Control and maneuvering solely by reference to flight instruments, including straight and level flight, turns, descents, climbs, use of radio aids, and ATC directives. For student pilots seeking a sport pilot certificate, the provisions of this paragraph only apply when receiving training for cross-country flight in an airplane that has a VHgreater than 87 knots CAS.

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  • 1 year later...

If your working on your Sport Pilot Certificate in a CT you should receive some instruction on controlling the aircraft soley by reference to instruments prior to your solo cross country.

 

Regulation 61.93 requires 12 items to be completed as part of cross country training, here is number twelve.

 

 

(12) Control and maneuvering solely by reference to flight instruments, including straight and level flight, turns, descents, climbs, use of radio aids, and ATC directives. For student pilots seeking a sport pilot certificate, the provisions of this paragraph only apply when receiving training for cross-country flight in an airplane that has a VHgreater than 87 knots CAS.

 

 

Also, the person giving the 'under the hood time' is required to have a medical by the regulations as I understand it, since someone acting as a safety pilot is a required crewmember.

 

Maybe this will be changed soon, though.

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I found this segment of my training to be really valuable. I had no idea how disoriented I could become without horizon reference. When my CFI first had me put on the foggles, I thought, "Hey, no problem... with the huge windows in the CT I can still see the ground just fine." But I couldn't see the horizon and quickly lost control of the plane's attitude when trying to fly by ground reference, much to my shock and amazement. This really reinforced to me that you have to stop trying to fly by visual reference and only fly by the instruments when you lose reference to the surface... especially the horizon.

 

It was only 0.4 hours under the "hood," but it was time very well spent.

 

-Russ

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If a private pilot without a current medical can act as a safety pilot for instrument training, why would a medical be required in an LSA? Doesn't make sense. Suppose I am a private pilot flying as a sport pilot? I can't believe my safely pilot needs a medical.

WF

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If a private pilot without a current medical can act as a safety pilot for instrument training, why would a medical be required in an LSA? Doesn't make sense. Suppose I am a private pilot flying as a sport pilot? I can't believe my safely pilot needs a medical.

WF

 

Anyone acting as a safety pilot is required to have a medical as the current regulations are written... FAR 61.3 © says:

 

"A person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of an aircraft only if that person holds the appropriate medical certificate... "

 

and FAR 1.1:

 

"Crewmember means a person assigned to perform duty in an aircraft during flight time."

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  • 2 weeks later...

Anyone acting as a safety pilot is required to have a medical as the current regulations are written... FAR 61.3 © says:

 

"A person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of an aircraft only if that person holds the appropriate medical certificate... "

 

and FAR 1.1:

 

"Crewmember means a person assigned to perform duty in an aircraft during flight time."

There are lots of holes in the sport pilot regs, and this is one of them. I hold a commercial and instrument ASEL certificate and a CFI-S and can't instruct this area without a medical even though I can fly and do all my other instruction as a sport pilot without one. I'm working around this by combining this instruction with a stage check given by a buddy of mine who is a "regular" CFI. The requirement for the instruction is in part 61 that is for student pilots and I'm not sure it wasn't overlooked when the sport pilot regs were put together, though I believe it was looked at when they were revised after the original 2004 issue.

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  • 5 months later...

Let's revisit this. I believe a CFI-S can act as a safety pilot and act as safety pilot while giving student pilots basic instruction in control of the aircraft by instruments using a hood or other vision restricting device The above quote stopped early, only partially covering the sentence in 61.3. The sentence ends with "certificate...or other documentation acceptable to the FAA...". 61.3 ©(2)(v) establishes that the pilot is not required to hold a medical certificate while acting as sport pilot in an aircraft, as we all know. Now move on to 61.23 Medical certificates; Requirements and duration, © Operations requiring either a medical certificate or US driver's license (1) A person must hold and possess either a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter or a US driver's license when-(iii)Exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating while acting as pilot in command or serving as a required pilot crew member of a light sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon.

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Due to the wording of this new rule, the FAA interpretation requires this training to be conducted by an instructor

who holds at least a private pilot rating in addition to a flight instructor certificate. The instructor does not need to

hold a third class medical certificate.

 

Updates and question refer to AFS-610.

 

Can you share what person by name gave this interpretation and when? The reason I ask is because before I even saw this post, I got an email from AFS-610 at 1505 today saying the question was in front of AFS-800, that they were going to revise the reg, and that they were not willing to comment on what it would read. I know that the wording above is one of the options being considered, but I also know that the framers of the original SP CFI rules intended for that CFI to be able to perform all aspects of SP instruction. Right now, the hangup is on the legal requirements for a safety pilot/required crew member.

 

I am sure all of us hope that SP will be permitted to give instrument instruction or training (I'm not sure which word they will use and it makes a big difference). In the meantime, if a person is inclined to be paranoid, it would be on the safe side to use a Subpart H CFI w/medical. One does not want to have to repeat the training/instruction.

 

I didn't find the requirement for 1 hour or any time limit in the current regs. Maybe there's been a change since 2010.

 

 

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You can't completely trust that document. I've spoken with NAFI about it being out of date. I believe the 1 hour requirement was proposed in 2010 and NOT adopted. Certainly, my current copy of the FAR does not contain it. Check 61. 93(e)(12) yourself. Regardless, if what you say is true about private pilot becoming a requirement, then I'm personally still golden.

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Jim. I will give you a link to the document I got it from. Search on the term 'afs-610'

 

http://www.nafinet.org/forms/cfi%27s%20guide%20to%20sport%20pilot%20and%20light%20sport%20aircraft.pdf

 

Thanks for the reference. As noted above, it is copyrighted 2010. Given my personal conversations with FAA people as discussed previously, I'm going to hold to a conservative interpretation (hoping it is loosened by the forthcoming FAA decision). It would be interesting to see where NAFI got this interpretation. Sadly, the FAA is fully capable of invalidating training that was taken in good faith but doesn't meet their criteria. The DPE whose students had to retake their check rides is a recent example.

Each of us will have to make up our own mind as to which course of action we take in the meantime.

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There are only a couple of DPE's in our area performing light sport check rides. Later this weekend, I'll put my argument to the DPE who did my CFI-S checkride and see what he says. That won't be a definitive answer but certainly the more conversation that gets stirred up about this, the more likely it is to get resolved, hopefully in the CFI-S's favor. I do understand and live by the philosophy "you can't give away what you don't have", so it'll be interesting to see if this does impose an additional requirement on the CFI-s in some way. Not sure I understand how you can't be "a required pilot crew member" flying Light Sport;FAR 61.23 seems to say you can even with a driver's license medical.

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The question is before the Chief Counsel right now. Betting on NAFI to have correctly predicted what the Chief Counsel will decide may be more palatable for some than others. Following the unofficial NAFI document is exactly like second guessing the process.

 

One reason this will be interesting to see is because the implications of the ruling extend well beyond SP. If a person without a medical can be safety pilot, that means the safety pilot is no longer expected to be able to assume PIC, which is a tenet of FAA right now. Instead of the safety pilot being a backup pilot s/he becomes a sentinel.

If the CFI-SP can give instrument instruction, then s/he must demonstrate competency so that will be added to the CFI-SP curriculum, very likely retro-actively.

Another possible fall-out if that each SP endorsed to fly an LSA faster than 87 KIAS Vh may have to prove that the training was accomplished by a qualified instructor.

Another solution would be to simply remove the 87 KIAS Vh requirement and turn the clock back to 2005.

It will be very interesting to see what the Chief Counsel decides.

 

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In another life, I was an active instrument rated pilot I enjoyed the challenges greatly. Now, having said that, in years past and now I consider my instrument training literally a life insurance policy. As a curent sport pilot I do not exercise my instrument ticket, except to maintain my proficiency by flying ILS, GPS, and VOR approaches to maintain my flying skills in the event they are required. In the almost 5 years as a Sport Pilot I have experienced a few times when forecasts were not good and I successfully flew in marginal conditions with no problem. My feeling is that some instrument proficiency is a life saver and all who fly should be able to maintain safe flight in the event of inadvertent IFR conditions.

 

One does not have to formally have instruction, informal demonstration learning is fine and my point is that everyone should be familiar with the basics.

 

Dr. Ken Nolde, N840KN

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Doc,

The discussion is about the requirement that SP students have training in flight by reference to instruments before cross country solo in an LSA that exceeds 87 KIAS Vh, and who can give that instruction. It is mandatory.

Nothing wrong with additional familiarization, as you point out.

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Hey Jim,

 

I guess I'm not following your comments about a safety pilot and PIC. A CFI-S is PIC when flying with a student. Being a "safety pilot" doesn't change that.

 

I agree there needs to be some demonstration of proficiency if the CFI-S is not instrument rated but would think if he/she is, that would be enough. I'm checking with my DPE, but I'm doubting if any "regular" CFI's had to do so on their check rides. We are talking about only training basic aircraft control, not formally defined instrument instruction, which would only be legal by a CFII anyway.

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