Actual Cost Rotax 5 Year Rubber

[Tom Baker]

1 hour ago, Isham said:

I appreciate the input.  Mine is SLSA but I work with an IA so will do it under owner assist.  I will need to get the approved parts.  Although things like SCAT hose I can probably get from Spruce.  I plan to reuse the hose fire sleeves.

Since it is a pet peeve of mine I would like to point out that an IA is not allowed to supervise work. Their privileges are simply performing annual inspections and approving for return to service of an aircraft after a major repair or alteration. Because one of the requirement of becoming an IA is being an A&P you are all set, because a A&P can supervise you performing the maintenance.

On the fire sleeve in my experience you will likely need to replace some to clean up ends and adjust lengths of some hoses. What I like to do is replace the longest piece with new, and use it to make the next shortest piece, and so on. You will probably need to do that for the oil hoses and the fuel hoses.

The more of these I do, the more I learn, and I am always making little changes to make maintenance easier.

[Roger Lee]

Did you know an A&P must be there the whole time you are doing the work. He can't leave and a day later sign off work he really never supervised. This is what many do and the FAA said he has to be there the entire time or you're not supervising. 

[Tom Baker]

Yes Roger I knew that. I also know a LSRM isn't awarded the privilege of supervision.

[Roger Lee]

5 hours ago, Tom Baker said:

Yes Roger I knew that. I also know a LSRM isn't awarded the privilege of supervision.

I agree. It may be a shame in the LSA industry since many LSRM-A's know more about LSA than some A&P's.

[Isham]

Good idea on replacing the longest fire sleeve. I always reused them on my Piper but the end are not sealed on those. Is there any tricks to limit damaging the sleeve ends when removing them?

[Madhatter]

I've been an A&P for 47yrs and an IA for 25 and I hate to say that there are a lot of A&P's that you wouldn't want to work on your lawnmower. I also know a man who repaired Poncho Barn's Travel Air biplane with only the rudder to start from, ALL parts made by hand even the streamlined tubing which is no longer available and was given a standard airworthiness certification. He has no A&P and doesn't want one. I have never met anyone with this talent. You don't have to have a piece of paper to know what you are doing.

[Tom Baker]

23 minutes ago, Isham said:

Good idea on replacing the longest fire sleeve. I always reused them on my Piper but the end are not sealed on those. Is there any tricks to limit damaging the sleeve ends when removing them?

It depends a little on how the last person finished off the Band-it clamps. Sometimes I  can bend the tail back out straight and push it back with a pair of pliers. This will loosen the clamp enough to get a small screwdriver between the wraps, and you can pull the tail free. Then unwrap the remainder. Or you can use a Dremel and cut the cross band, pry it off and undo the clamp. Either way should not damage the fire sleeve.

[GrassStripFlyBoy]

8 hours ago, Madhatter said:

I've been an A&P for 47yrs and an IA for 25 and I hate to say that there are a lot of A&P's that you wouldn't want to work on your lawnmower. I also know a man who repaired Poncho Barn's Travel Air biplane with only the rudder to start from, ALL parts made by hand even the streamlined tubing which is no longer available and was given a standard airworthiness certification. He has no A&P and doesn't want one. I have never met anyone with this talent. You don't have to have a piece of paper to know what you are doing.

 

 

That machine is a beautiful piece of craftsmanship.  Poncho Barns!  Flash back of reading Chuck Yeager's biography - crazy days!  And to your point - so true, and applies universally to almost every profession - engineers, sales professionals, operations managers, tool & die makers, on and on.  I'll take someone with 1st - a good work ethic, 2nd - a positive attitude, 3rd - creative & coachable / teachable, over anyone lacking these coupled with some sort of degree.  The resume got the candidate in the door, but I hired exclusively on these simple items and it never failed.  I went to a less prestigious state college, obtained a technical engineering BS degree, and attribute these traits as to why I was promoted over much "smarter" engineers, who had far more seniority, and degrees from the big name schools.  I've put more effort into raising my kids to have these attributes than worked on "schooling smarts" knowing this is what serves people in the long term.

The other side of this coin I fear is growing out of control far too fast.  I won't elaborate on those particulars, you fella's already know that saga, and will save the drama.

[procharger]

I don't trust anyone to work on my CT but me.

[Isham]

New question on the 5-year rubber.  I am picking up my airplane (CTSW) next week after completion of the 5-year rubber.  The mechanic doing it has done many of them but this is his first Flight Design. 

My question is, when I pick up the airplane what should I look at.  I plan to remove the top cowl and inspect everything I can see, hoses, engine mounts, security of things.  Is there anything I should pay particularly close attention to?  Also, plan to do a good careful runup before I takeoff.

I appreciate your input.

[Warmi]

1 hour ago, Isham said:

New question on the 5-year rubber.  I am picking up my airplane (CTSW) next week after completion of the 5-year rubber.  The mechanic doing it has done many of them but this is his first Flight Design. 

My question is, when I pick up the airplane what should I look at.  I plan to remove the top cowl and inspect everything I can see, hoses, engine mounts, security of things.  Is there anything I should pay particularly close attention to?  Also, plan to do a good careful runup before I takeoff.

I appreciate your input.

In my case it was a bad clamp on the carburetor fuel line - what’s worse , it failed a few months after the 5 year rubber service.

I would do exactly as you mentioned- inspect everything, run the engine with multiple run ups , open and inspect everything again looking for any sort of fuel or other leaks.

https://youtu.be/B9x9o-HoHTE

 

[Isham]

I appreciate the input.  I will pay close attention to the fuel lines.  Just for my info, what was the cause (bad hose, hose not on far enough, loose clamp, ???).

[Warmi]

The clamp looked somewhat mangled when we took it off , like it was reused ... I don’t know what happened exactly and since I stopped using that particular shop because of this and other issues, I don’t really care anymore

[Tom Baker]

1 hour ago, Isham said:

I appreciate the input.  I will pay close attention to the fuel lines.  Just for my info, what was the cause (bad hose, hose not on far enough, loose clamp, ???).

Warmi has a Sting instead of a CT. The CT will have a different type connection at the carbs. 

The biggest issues I find are terminations of the ends of the firesleeve. Some tend to place the Band-it clamps to far back from the fitting constricting the hose. Another issue I have seen is the use of the wrong sized hoses, or incorrect substitutions. There are a few spots where the correct size hose is very hard to get over the fitting, where if they put a hose that is easy to get over the fitting it will be to loose on the other end. Also there are some that never have the stainless nipple installed where the fuel hose goes through the firewall when the firewall blanket was installed. I just did on recently that has had two hose changes, and the fuel hose in the wing root had never been replaced. Oh an other big one from recent years is the oil line feeding the oil pump flattening out and almost kinking in the radius. The current oil hose needs a spring installed to prevent this.

If you want shoot me a copy of the detailed parts list for what they used, and I can give you a better idea of what to look for. Also post a picture of the engine when completed, and everyone can take a look.

[Warmi]

I thought all Rotax installations for ULS were pretty much the same for all the core stuff ( like carbs )  in the engine ?

[Tom Baker]

3 hours ago, Warmi said:

I thought all Rotax installations for ULS were pretty much the same for all the core stuff ( like carbs )  in the engine ?

There are 2 standard Rotax fuel installations. One with solid stainless lines, early CTSW's used these. The the later used the orange teflon lines. Neither of these use clamps on the fittings at the carbs. The Sting uses a fuel system designed by the aircraft manufacture. The mechanic who did your hose change removed the stainless lines on a CTSW and installed the later teflon type because he had never seen the stainless type before. For about $400.

[Isham]

Photos of 5-Year progress.  Let me know if you see any issues.

[Isham]

A question, where can I find the 2-year inspection checklist/requirement for the wing carry through structure?  Now is the perfect time to inspect this.

[Tom Baker]

In the maintenance manual. 

[Isham]

Doesn't say much if I found it under 3.6 Wings: Wing Attachment Area. . .  I am going to have the mechanic do that inspection now with the wings off since it will be due at my next annual.

[Roger Lee]

"Wing Attachment Area. Inspect wing spar and main bolt bushings for cracks and debonding. Check visible attaching hardware for loss of torque. Inspect aileron bellcranks for cracks and corrosion. Check root rib pins for debonding and cracks, and the forward one for fuel leak. Check each 600 hrs or at the next 100 hrs inspection after 2 years, whichever occurs first.

It says the first 100 hours after 2 years so it could easily be 3 years and that's where most of my clients are.

[Isham]

Thanks for that clarification Roger.  Mine would be due in November 2021.  If I have him do it now with the wings off I believe that would give me the 3 years before it would be due again.  I fly about 50 hours per year.  The 2007 airplane has just over 400TT now.

[Tom Baker]

I always do it at the 5 year rubber replacement since the wings are off to replace the fuel line anyway. My recommendation to my customers is to do it every two years with the condition inspection. This makes the one at the rubber replacement come one year early, but so be it. My reasoning is that any beyond two years it becomes next to impossible to read the fuel level in the sight tubes. For me this is an un airworthy issue. Now if the fuel level in the sight tube is readable, then it can be extended as Roger says. The sight tubes will stay clean running 100LL, but we know the issues with that. I also suspect that it will stay clean using Swift fuel, but it is not available everywhere.

[Tom Baker]

Looking at your pictures the oil return from the bottom of the engine to the oil tank is still in its original configuration. With the current Rotax oil hose that line will try and knink making that "S" turn. I have change all of the airplanes I work on to the current routing of the return line. It requires a 90° end fitting on the hose instead of the straight on. Also the hose from the tank to the radiator will need to be a little longer. The plus side is it makes a nice clean kink free installation for the oil tank.

[Tom Baker]

Also if there is no record of the radiator shock mounts being replaced I would inspect them real close, or just replace them. I have been seeing more failures as of late with the CTSW's.