Fly Boss Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 When we picked up the plane in Miami (CTLS 860LS) the throttle lever slid forward and back using one finger. Obviously it didn't hold where you set it and needed constant attention in flight. Upon arrival home, we tightened the friction block bolt to remove unnecessary slippage. This worked pretty well but after 5 hours of flight had loosened up again and caused creeping. The lock bolt can handle tightening each time without issue. Arian (FD) indicated he had never heard of a friction block actually wearing down and that perhaps the lock nut had simply lost some of its plastic locking material. Inspection of the friction block doesn't show the nut is actually loosening, which suggests the friction block may indeed be in need of attention. Has anyone else suffered similar experiences with different solutions? Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 I have never heard of one wearing out and once tightened stay where they are set. Is it possible you aren't tightening it correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 I have never heard of one wearing out and once tightened stay where they are set. Is it possible you aren't tightening it correctly?Maybe a dab of "Torque-Seal" to see if the nut is turning? If it is, either a fresh lock nut or a second nut over the first if there are enough threads showing? If not, maybe some LocTite on the existing threads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Our CTSWs need belleville washers added to lock the throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 On my CTLS the friction changes seasonally, and I have to make small adjustments. On the same note my idle speed changes seasonally as well. I think all this has to do with the expansion and contraction of the plastic with temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 CTSW was seasonal as well until the belleville washers Is the CTLS choke/throttle lock any different than the CTSW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Is there no flight adjustable throttle friction? I though most planes had them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Is there no flight adjustable throttle friction? I though most planes had them. Nope it just works fine until it doesn't and then you default to full throttle and choke off. Works fine for me in cruise. Makes for a surprise startup if you don't notice the wrong throttle lever position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 CTSW was seasonal as well until the belleville washers Is the CTLS choke/throttle lock any different than the CTSW? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 No. Then there is no need for a seasonal adjustment. Mine failed twice 10 years ago and has held for the nine years since the belleville washer(s) (forget if we used 1 or 2) was added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Is there no flight adjustable throttle friction? I though most planes had them. If you mean more than 50% when you say most, then most have them. On the other hand there are quite a few airplanes that don't have pilot adjustable friction locks. The Citabria I learned to fly in. The J-3 I bought to do sport pilot instruction initially. The A model Taylorcraft. The Champs I instructed in. The Thorp I flew to Oshkosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 I remember when the Bellville washers were the topic of discussion, but I never picked up any to install. IIRC someone had bought a bunch and were sending them out if requested, but that may have been a different website and a different airplane part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 I remember when the Bellville washers were the topic of discussion, but I never picked up any to install. IIRC someone had bought a bunch and were sending them out if requested, but that may have been a different website and a different airplane part. They are easy to find: https://www.google.com/search?q=Bellville+washers&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS506US506&oq=Bellville+washers&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=belleville+washers Dunno the size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Here you go: http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/122/1286/=12itvcg Part No. 96475K233 $8.80 for a package of 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 If you mean more than 50% when you say most, then most have them. On the other hand there are quite a few airplanes that don't have pilot adjustable friction locks. The Citabria I learned to fly in. The J-3 I bought to do sport pilot instruction initially. The A model Taylorcraft. The Champs I instructed in. The Thorp I flew to Oshkosh. Tom, You're of course right - I don't recall either Citabria of mine having throttle frictions. But having one you can adjust in flight is very handy - I'm kinda spoiled by the one in my Sky Arrow - the knurled knob on the right that tightens the friction on both the throttle and choke: Admittedly it does tend to loosen up on its own sometimes, and needs a little nudging to get back where I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 One of the worst friction set ups I have seen is on the Savanah. It has dual push pull throttles, with both having friction locks. Both need to be undone to move the throttle, and it seems like both need to be on to hold the throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 You can get the belleville washer at Ace Aviation (Ace Hardware). Seasonal changes usually only occurs in the cold climates. 0-20F in the inter and then 75-100F in the summer. The belleville washer should help relieve that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Boss Posted May 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 I have never heard of one wearing out and once tightened stay where they are set. Is it possible you aren't tightening it correctly? I think it is being tightened properly. A look at the parts manual shows the block as one piece. It appears on mine that the thin sliver on the right side of the throttle lever is broken off the rest of the block. It is only being held in place by the bolt and lock nut. You don't really see it unless you move the lever forward and backwards. I suspect that because of this that no matter how it is tightened or locked down, the broken piece has lost its leverage to maintain the friction properly. Does anyone have a friction block for the CTLS by any chance? Seems hit or miss when I call FD for parts. Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Mine needed a bit of adjustment for a couple of years (partly because I was playing with different amounts of friction), but the last year or so has not crept at all and has a good feel, light but sticky enough to maintain a setting. Eddie, the ground adjustment is easy and takes about five minutes. I keep the necessary tools in the airplane just in case, but in practice if it starts to slip a little you can manage it easily for several flight hours before it becomes a real nuisance. I always keep my hand on the throttle, and with a fixed pitch prop there is no "set it and forget it" anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 I think it is being tightened properly. A look at the parts manual shows the block as one piece. It appears on mine that the thin sliver on the right side of the throttle lever is broken off the rest of the block. It is only being held in place by the bolt and lock nut. You don't really see it unless you move the lever forward and backwards. I suspect that because of this that no matter how it is tightened or locked down, the broken piece has lost its leverage to maintain the friction properly. Does anyone have a friction block for the CTLS by any chance? Seems hit or miss when I call FD for parts. Danny If you don't have any luck with Flight Design USA. you might try Lockwood or Airtime Aviation. They might have a recycled unit from a damaged airplane. Another option would be to remove the part and have a machine shop make a new one out of Delrin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 You can make these blocks. They are made from PVC. The slots for the levers are made with a table saw (you can see the marks left by one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 You can make these blocks. They are made from PVC. The slots for the levers are made with a table saw (you can see the marks left by one). If I was making one and it was going in an E-LSA, I might try making it from phenolic. It will wear better and be stronger than the stock part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 I used nylon, and the change was approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 I used nylon, and the change was approved. cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 cool! I had also made the block a little larger in the longitudinal direction (with respect to installation) as the old block had a really thin spot that was probe to breakage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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