Roger Lee Posted June 28 Report Share Posted June 28 I started and did the first Matco's on a Flight Design because Marc brakes fade too easy when they get hot during a stop. I got FD to fleet approve Matco's. They wrre originally thinking of going with Russian brakes because they could get Marc brake factory to respond to issues and they knew Marc brakes didn't perform as well. Many times they won't hold the plane still at full throttle. Many times you have to pump the brake handle because of the springs in the calipers that push the pads away from the disc. The Matco brakes don't fade, they have a lot more fluid volume and a higher brake pressure to the pads. There is more. I've sold close to a hundred sets and installed around 60 - 75 sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted June 28 Report Share Posted June 28 I have over 4000 landings (not a typo) on my 2006 CTsw equipped with Marc brakes. I have never experienced brake fade in the airplane. I have no idea how fast I'd have to land to get the brakes hot enough to fade on the runway. Also, my Marc brakes always hold the plane at full throttle. I removed the caliper springs 15 years ago and have had no brake pumping issues since. BTW, "brake fluid volume" is irrelevant to brake performance. Brakes are a hydraulic system - the goal is to make pressure, not move fluid volume. The ratio of master cylinder diameter to slave cylinder diameter (all else equal) determines brake forces. In hydraulic brakes, the lower the volume of fluid that moves when the brake lever is pulled, the better. Marc wheels are thin and somewhat flimsy and I'm not saying their wheels or brakes are awesome. But, a lot of what Roger wrote above is definitely not my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 28 Report Share Posted June 28 Marc wheels are thin and change size depending on tire pressure. Plus they have less metal to rubber contact around the outside edges so if the pressure gets low the tire rotates on the wheel ripping the stem off the tube. I've personally seen this about a half dozen times and read about it many times. It's more common on the front wheel. Matco's don't do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 28 Report Share Posted June 28 Just be cautious with pad wear with the Matco brakes. As the pads wear more piston from the wheel cylinder becomes exposed. Matco doesn't use a guide on the piston like Cleveland does. As the piston becomes more exposed it can become cocked in the wheel cylinder and not allow the brake pressure to be released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 28 Report Share Posted June 28 57 minutes ago, Tom Baker said: Just be cautious with pad wear with the Matco brakes. As the pads wear more piston from the wheel cylinder becomes exposed. Matco doesn't use a guide on the piston like Cleveland does. As the piston becomes more exposed it can become cocked in the wheel cylinder and not allow the brake pressure to be released. YES! I had this happen to me. With the Matcos you have to watch the wear and not let them become over-worn. I replace mine when they are at about 40%. It's cheap insurance, the pad kits are pretty inexpensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted June 28 Report Share Posted June 28 2 hours ago, Roger Lee said: so if the pressure gets low the tire rotates on the wheel ripping the stem off the tube. I've personally seen this about a half dozen times and read about it many times. I have Tundra wheels/tires on my CTsw (only mechanical difference is front fork/wheel, mains are same hardware). 4000+ landings and not a single damaged stem. I don't see how that happens on a front tire unless the pressure is dangerously low (no brake to spin the tire on the wheel). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 28 Report Share Posted June 28 2 hours ago, FredG said: I have Tundra wheels/tires on my CTsw (only mechanical difference is front fork/wheel, mains are same hardware). 4000+ landings and not a single damaged stem. I don't see how that happens on a front tire unless the pressure is dangerously low (no brake to spin the tire on the wheel). I think it's more an issue on the mains than the nosewheel. You'd have to touchdown super flat and fast or with almost no air to get a nosewheel tire to spin enough to hurt a stem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 28 Report Share Posted June 28 The nose tire can be significantly low without be visibly low, therein lies the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 28 Report Share Posted June 28 Hi Andy, The nose wheel on Marc wheels only needs to get down into the 20’s to get the tire to move on the wheel. It’s the poor wheel design Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towner Posted June 28 Report Share Posted June 28 Thanks again to everyone for the great info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Cesnalis Posted June 28 Report Share Posted June 28 I had 2 nose wheel flats this year, definately let it get low. I do mostly land on my mains only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 I guess I'm wrong, people do seem to be having issues with the nose tire. It makes sense with the Marc especially since it really doesn't have a bead to provide friction. I haven't experienced on the nose this but I'm pretty conscientious with tire pressure checks since I let one of my mains get way too low and it rolled off the wheel on taxi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Cesnalis Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 I pay a lot more attention to my mains on my current CTSW. When I got it it took a lot of left pedal to taxi strait. If I get the relative l/r pressure just right it taxi's strait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 30 Report Share Posted June 30 On 6/29/2024 at 11:25 AM, Eddie Cesnalis said: I pay a lot more attention to my mains on my current CTSW. When I got it it took a lot of left pedal to taxi strait. If I get the relative l/r pressure just right it taxi's strait. Have you adjusted the rod ends to the nosewheel steering? That should solve the issue without differential tire pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 30 Report Share Posted June 30 I agree with Andy on sterring rod ends. Takes 5 minutes to adjust one side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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