Rich Read Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 Hello all, I have an 06 CTSW and am curious if you guys are having to use a lot of right rudder in cruise? I cruise at 136kt with -12 flaps and am at 5200 rpm with the prop almost full course, ( in flight adjustable) with full right rudder trim, and still need to ad more rudder? If I'm cruising slower it seems like I need less right rudder, wondering if that's normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Cesnalis Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 It is far from normal to cruise above 135kts in an 06 CTSW. 5,200 RPM indicates a partial power setting. How does this make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 There are a couple places where you issue could be. If the rudder cable housing slipped off the rudder trim pulley that can cause trim issues. Also if your nose wheel steering and rudder cable tension and rigging is not correct that can also cause issues. Because most of the people on the forum only have -6° flaps and ground adjustable propellers we are not used to seeing those kinds of speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 1 hour ago, Eddie Cesnalis said: It is far from normal to cruise above 135kts in an 06 CTSW. 5,200 RPM indicates a partial power setting. How does this make sense? Since he didn't mention manifold pressure, it is not as easy to figure what the power setting is. Being an in flight adjustable propeller and all. He did said full coarse pitch, and he could be full throttle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Cesnalis Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, Tom Baker said: Since he didn't mention manifold pressure, it is not as easy to figure what the power setting is. Being an in flight adjustable propeller and all. He did said full coarse pitch, and he could be full throttle. I was assuming a 912 and remembering max hp available from the hp/tourque curves at 5,200 isn't much over 90. Even at 5,800 98% is the max available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdarza Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 i have a 2006 CTSW and had the left yaw requiring constant slight rudder at cruise (5200rpm) and just like you mentioned it would be fine at lower rpms - (4900rpm) After trying to adjust rudder/cables etc with no improvement - i eventually removed the front wheel pant and the plane is flying perfectly straight in cruise. Thus in my case, it was the wheel pant causing the left yaw. I havent tried to remedy the yaw with the wheel pants so i just got used to flying without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 49 minutes ago, cdarza said: i eventually removed the front wheel pant and the plane is flying perfectly straight in cruise. I had the same problem on my 2006 CTsw until I removed the original front Tundra wheel pant. Then, like you, the yaw problem was fixed. I replaced it with a CTls wheel pant (slightly different design) and it did not induce the yaw problem. The original wheel pant did not have enough surface area aft of the nose gear pivot and would introduce a torque moment on the front gear steering system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 You need to rule out cross controlling. I’ve seen a number of CT pilots cross trim because of the way they set trim. I recommend rolling the trim wheels back to center. Then take off and once level set the pitch first. Then set the ailerons and then set the rudder trim. This will help you stay away from a cross control issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 136 kt on an SW? Not a chance. Have your static checked, I have seen this before on a CT. When I bought my 06 CT from Airtime I was seeing the same number and with a lot of static fluxuations. My approach speed was much slower than indicated. A CT has a lot of cabin air leakage which causes low pressure, thus affecting the airspeed with an open static. I've seen this on many aircraft when they come in for IFR recertification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Cesnalis Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 50 minutes ago, Madhatter said: 136 kt on an SW? Not a chance. MY gut says it would take 150hp to make a CTSW this fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Cesnalis Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 14 hours ago, Tom Baker said: he could be full throttle. They used to call me 'Wide Open Throttle Charlie Tango' I was based above 7,000' most of my life flying normally asperated. I was thinking 5,200 @ WOT sounds like 90hp approaximately. That is what I meant by partial power not partial throttle. A CTSW can maybe make 120kts with 90hp as long as it's near sea level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 10 hours ago, Roger Lee said: You need to rule out cross controlling. Roger, who is "you" in your post? If you are replying to me, then you are incorrect. I am not "cross controlling" and the problem really was the design of the CTsw Tundra nose gear wheel pant. I discussed this at length with Tom Peghiny many years ago. A number of CTsw airplanes had this problem with the Tundra nose gear wheel pant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 15 minutes ago, FredG said: Roger, who is "you" in your post? If you are replying to me, then you are incorrect. I am not "cross controlling" and the problem really was the design of the CTsw Tundra nose gear wheel pant. I discussed this at length with Tom Peghiny many years ago. A number of CTsw airplanes had this problem with the Tundra nose gear wheel pant. I think he used "you" generically, as in "one should eliminate cross controlling first". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 I wonder if he's using TAS speed instead of indicated. 136kt TAS is very fast, but I have seen 132kt TAS...with an in-flight adjustable prop 136kt TAS is certainly possible. The wheel pant thing is a definite consideration. Bill Ince's old airplane (N663CT) used to have this issue, causing him to hold constant rudder in flight even with full trim. It completely disappeared when he switched to the redesigned nose wheel pant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Cesnalis Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 1 hour ago, FlyingMonkey said: I wonder if he's using TAS speed instead of indicated. 136kt TAS is very fast, but I have seen 132kt TAS...with an in-flight adjustable prop 136kt TAS is certainly possible. I say no. He reports this at full coarse. Best speed is at at fine setting. In flight adjustable alows you to tweak this for different altitudes but it doesn't buy any more speed than the ground adjustable can realize. In flight adjustable at full coarse is for best economy at a reduced speed. The inflight adjustable makes best speed and best climb available @ 5,500 / 5,800 as well as best economy when throttled back at a coarse setting. It might be a bad power setting if the power is too high and prop too coarse. What happens to speed and fuel burn if you flatten from 5,200 to 5,500? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmo133 Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 Hi I really try my new E-Props Glorieuse during a trip yesterday. At 5000 RPM and 24.5 inHg MP at 4000 ft and 59°F at 525kg total weight and without wheel fairing on left and right wheels, I reach 130 kts indicated. The propeller according to how function the E-Props systems, was in high pitch position. With the previous blade I barely reach 115 kts at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Cesnalis Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 31 minutes ago, Ulmo133 said: Hi I really try my new E-Props Glorieuse during a trip yesterday. At 5000 RPM and 24.5 inHg MP at 4000 ft and 59°F at 525kg total weight and without wheel fairing on left and right wheels, I reach 130 kts indicated. The propeller according to how function the E-Props systems, was in high pitch position. With the previous blade I barely reach 115 kts at best. 5,000 @ 24.5" is what a little over 80hp? 130kts IAS doesn't seem possible. What was your gps ground speed and wind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmo133 Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 16 minutes ago, Eddie Cesnalis said: 5,000 @ 24.5" is what a little over 80hp? 130kts IAS doesn't seem possible. What was your gps ground speed and wind? It's what ROTAX indicated for a 912ULS at 4000 ft for 75% power. 145 kts GS, 5 kts wind from behind. I have two speed indicator on my dashboard : one DA10A and one analogical : same value on both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 5000 rpm at 24.5" at 4000 msl seems over pitched to me, would be pretty hard on the engine. Based on 1" per thousand feet you would have to be close to wot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmo133 Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 Extract from ROTAX tab for 912ULS with constant speed propeller : At 2000 ft MSL 5000 RPM, 26,5" : 75% 4800 RPM, 25,5" : 65% 4300 RPM, 24" : 55% At 4000 ft MSL 5000 RPM, 24,5" : 75% 4800 RPM, 24,5" : 65% 4300 RPM, 22,5" : 55% At 6500 ft MSL 5000 RPM, 22,5" : 75% 4800 RPM, 22,5" : 65% 4300 RPM, 20,5" : 55% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 I wish we in the USA could use CS props... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmo133 Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 Because it's not allowed in the US ? You can't buy a Glorieuse and put it on your CT even if it's possible in Europe and allowed by the manufacturer ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 1 hour ago, Ulmo133 said: Because it's not allowed in the US ? You can't buy a Glorieuse and put it on your CT even if it's possible in Europe and allowed by the manufacturer ? No, the rules here preclude using in flight adjustable propellers, at least for now. That may change in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmo133 Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 Thanks for the insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skunkworks85 Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 6 hours ago, Tom Baker said: No, the rules here preclude using in flight adjustable propellers, at least for now. That may change in the future. 8 hours ago, Ulmo133 said: Because it's not allowed in the US ? You can't buy a Glorieuse and put it on your CT even if it's possible in Europe and allowed by the manufacturer ? You could get an experimental exhibition certificate and fly it. It would be a bit of paperwork, but doable, However, this would require a PPL or higher certificate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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